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From: "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: GNAT GPL is not shareware
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 14:14:48 -0600
Date: 2015-02-03T14:14:48-06:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <mara7o$fcr$1@loke.gir.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: a48c3f8f-dcee-4d66-aafb-8f3c13733b53@googlegroups.com

"David Botton" <david@botton.com> wrote in message 
news:a48c3f8f-dcee-4d66-aafb-8f3c13733b53@googlegroups.com...
>> Sadly, I don't think there is much future for doing things well, because 
>> for
>> that one can neither sell maintenance nor get much effort for 
>> improvement.
>> Which ultimately leads to a bleak future for humanity, IMHO.

>Not true building a vertical market on a libre base, offering other 
>services
>around the language and products, brokering consulting services, job
>placement services, training, etc. I can think of many other ways to 
>monitize
>your work on an open source compiler (I say work on because the compiler
>was and is not the product, that falsehood alone has blinded them to
>innovation so far).

I don't believe most of this. For one thing, AdaCore has lots of 
non-compiler products; they've clearly tried (and are trying) to provide 
many things other than the compiler.

Indeed, a compiler has *never* been a product. The product at the very least 
is an ecosystem of development tools. A compiler alone is not a very useful 
thing. And while the language is standardized, those other things are not. 
As such, vendor lock-in is almost inevitable -- changing IDEs, project 
management, debuggers, etc. is a lot more difficult than changing compilers.

But I contend that any business model based on software is ultimately 
doomed. Free Software has made it far too easy to copy any good ideas -- on 
top of which the later implementations can avoid mistakes made in the first. 
The pioneer, the visionary has no hope of making any money off their work --  
in order to make money, they have to do something totally unrelated ("job 
placement", what the heck does that have to do with anything?) and that 
takes way too much time away from the thing that would actually do good.

>The one guaranteed long term failure plan history has proven out many times
>is customer lock-in methods...  I don't predict doom for them, only because
>enough people care about Ada to try and prevent it, despite themselves.

I agree if you're only talking about lock-in alone. Customers get wise to 
that in a hurry. OTOH, GPS, gprbuild, etc. are also things that cause 
lock-in. But it would be hard to have a useful development system without 
something like those things. So to some extent, lock-in is pretty much 
built-into the territory.

                                                     Randy.




  reply	other threads:[~2015-02-03 20:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 229+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-01-04 19:43 What is the best license to use for open source software? Hubert
2015-01-04 20:24 ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-04 20:50 ` David Botton
2015-01-04 21:27   ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-04 22:13     ` David Botton
2015-01-04 23:14       ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-05  0:56         ` David Botton
2015-01-05  1:20           ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-05  2:28             ` David Botton
2015-01-05 11:24               ` GNAT GPL is not shareware (was: Re: What is the best license to use for open source software?) Dirk Heinrichs
2015-01-05 11:38                 ` David Botton
2015-01-05 12:02                   ` GNAT GPL is not shareware Mark Carroll
2015-01-05 13:26                     ` David Botton
2015-01-06  0:39                       ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-01-06  0:48                         ` Hubert
2015-01-06  0:54                           ` David Botton
2015-01-06  4:02                             ` Hubert
2015-01-06 13:26                               ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-01-06 14:45                                 ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-06 14:51                                   ` David Botton
2015-01-06 20:14                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-06 20:59                                       ` David Botton
2015-01-07 23:36                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-08  3:22                                           ` David Botton
2015-01-08  4:21                                             ` Hubert
2015-01-08  5:17                                               ` David Botton
2015-01-08  8:52                                             ` Simon Wright
2015-01-08 11:36                                               ` gnatmake to lose support for project files, gprbuild instead Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-09  2:05                                             ` GNAT GPL is not shareware Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09  2:40                                               ` Paul Rubin
2015-01-09  3:42                                                 ` David Botton
2015-01-09  6:50                                                   ` Paul Rubin
2015-01-09 17:17                                                   ` Mark Carroll
2015-01-09 20:08                                                     ` David Botton
2015-01-10 12:53                                                       ` Brian Drummond
2015-01-10  2:06                                                     ` Simon Clubley
2015-01-09  3:40                                               ` David Botton
2015-01-09  9:25                                               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-01-06 15:36                                   ` G.B.
2015-01-06 17:14                                     ` David Botton
2015-01-06 14:46                                 ` David Botton
2015-01-06 15:09                                 ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-06 17:37                                   ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-06 17:46                                     ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-06 20:52                                     ` Shark8
2015-01-06 21:15                                       ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-06 21:46                                         ` Shark8
2015-01-07 11:00                                           ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 12:23                                             ` sbelmont700
2015-01-07 13:03                                               ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 13:46                                                 ` sbelmont700
2015-01-07 14:16                                                   ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 22:27                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-07 13:19                                               ` Thomas Løcke
2015-01-07 16:32                                             ` Shark8
2015-01-07 17:28                                               ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 19:04                                                 ` Shark8
2015-01-07 22:58                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-07 19:24                                                 ` Shark8
2015-01-07 21:45                                                   ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 17:33                                               ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 17:39                                                 ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 22:47                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-07 23:02                                                 ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 23:47                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-08  8:14                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-08 10:55                                                   ` G.B.
2015-01-08 12:30                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-08 14:17                                                       ` G.B.
2015-01-08 16:54                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-09 13:47                                                           ` G.B.
2015-01-09 22:03                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09 23:39                                                               ` Shark8
2015-01-12 23:49                                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-13  9:00                                                                   ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-13 15:51                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
2015-01-13 17:46                                                                       ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-13 21:19                                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-14  8:47                                                                       ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-14 16:22                                                                         ` Robert A Duff
2015-01-14 17:45                                                                           ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-14 23:43                                                                             ` Robert A Duff
2015-01-15  9:31                                                                               ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-15 14:24                                                                       ` G.B.
2015-01-15 20:24                                                                         ` David Botton
2015-01-15 21:10                                                                           ` Simon Wright
2015-01-16  0:35                                                                             ` David Botton
2015-01-16  0:45                                                                               ` David Botton
2015-01-10  7:18                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-12 11:40                                                               ` G.B.
2015-01-12 13:21                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-12 14:52                                                                   ` G.B.
2015-01-12 15:22                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-13  0:00                                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-12 23:52                                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09  2:33                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-08 18:46                                                     ` Shark8
2015-01-08 20:51                                                       ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-09  2:20                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09 14:11                                                       ` G.B.
2015-01-09 21:33                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09 21:47                                                           ` Shark8
2015-01-09 22:07                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09 23:36                                                               ` Shark8
2015-01-12 23:37                                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-07  9:15                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-01-09 10:27                                 ` Arie van Wingerden
2015-01-09 10:58                                   ` Arie van Wingerden
2015-01-09 16:39                                   ` Pascal Obry
2015-01-10 17:33                                     ` Arie van Wingerden
2015-01-10 17:44                                       ` Pascal Obry
2015-01-11  1:09                                       ` David Botton
2015-01-11 11:39                                         ` Arie van Wingerden
2015-01-11 17:42                                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-06 18:45                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-05 18:43                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-05 13:40                   ` G.B.
2015-01-05 13:59                   ` Brad Moore
2015-01-05 14:49                     ` G.B.
2015-01-05 15:11                     ` David Botton
2015-01-06 18:43                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-06 19:42                     ` David Botton
2015-01-06 20:22                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-07  1:59                       ` Hubert
2015-01-07  9:38                         ` Pascal Obry
2015-01-07 10:17                           ` Mark Carroll
2015-01-07 10:27                             ` Pascal Obry
2015-01-07 12:44                               ` David Botton
2015-01-07 15:39                               ` Dirk Heinrichs
2015-01-07 23:45                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-08  4:09                           ` Hubert
2015-01-08  8:57                             ` Simon Wright
2015-01-08 11:06                             ` G.B.
2015-01-05 18:43                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-06  0:44                   ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-01-29 12:58                   ` Lucretia
2015-01-29 14:25                     ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-30 11:20                       ` Brian Drummond
2015-01-29 19:12                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-29 20:57                       ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-30 16:48                         ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-30 20:15                           ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-30 21:03                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-31  8:16                               ` Dirk Heinrichs
2015-01-31 15:38                               ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-02 20:44                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-02-02 22:06                                   ` David Botton
2015-02-03 20:14                                     ` Randy Brukardt [this message]
2015-02-04  0:09                                       ` David Botton
2015-02-04  7:27                                         ` Pascal Obry
2015-02-04  8:00                                           ` Mark Carroll
2015-02-04  8:38                                             ` Pascal Obry
2015-02-04 12:27                                               ` G.B.
2015-02-04 12:48                                                 ` David Botton
2015-02-04 17:03                                               ` Björn Lundin
2015-02-04 10:15                                           ` Simon Wright
2015-02-04 12:30                                           ` David Botton
2015-02-02 22:13                                   ` Björn Lundin
2015-02-02 23:03                                   ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-03 20:36                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-02-03 22:54                                       ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-04 17:42                                         ` Björn Lundin
2015-02-04 19:41                                           ` Simon Wright
2015-02-04 22:49                                             ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-05  9:00                                               ` Simon Wright
2015-02-04 20:57                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-02-04 23:17                                           ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-04 23:57                                             ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-05  9:06                                               ` Simon Wright
2015-02-05 20:26                                                 ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-03 23:34                                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-02-03 23:55                                       ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-04  0:20                                         ` David Botton
2015-02-04 21:20                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-31  9:49                             ` G.B.
2015-01-31 16:12                               ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-02 12:06                                 ` Marius Amado-Alves
2015-01-30 11:48                   ` Marius Amado-Alves
2015-01-30 12:10                     ` G.B.
2015-01-30 12:12                     ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-30 13:50                       ` Simon Wright
2015-01-30 15:48                         ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-30 17:13                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-30 17:34                           ` Simon Wright
2015-01-30 18:21                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-30 18:49                               ` Simon Wright
2015-01-30 19:46                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-31  9:02                                   ` Simon Wright
2015-02-01 21:17                                   ` Containers on small systems (Was: GNAT GPL is not shareware) Simon Wright
2015-02-05  9:40                                     ` Containers on small systems Simon Wright
2015-02-06 21:54                                       ` Simon Wright
2015-02-18 22:25                                         ` Simon Wright
2015-01-31 11:04                       ` GNAT GPL is not shareware Brian Drummond
2015-01-05 19:54               ` What is the best license to use for open source software? Michael B.
2015-01-05 20:45                 ` David Botton
2015-01-05 21:51                   ` sbelmont700
2015-01-05 13:36       ` G.B.
2015-01-05 14:54         ` David Botton
2015-01-05  3:47   ` Hubert
2015-01-05 15:56     ` Maciej Sobczak
2015-01-05 16:52       ` Tero Koskinen
2015-01-05 16:53       ` David Botton
2015-01-23 11:49 ` jeditekunum
2015-01-26 15:01   ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-26 15:37     ` David Botton
2015-01-26 22:46       ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-27  0:39         ` G.B.
2015-01-27  1:59           ` David Botton
2015-01-27  8:52           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29  7:03             ` Vadim Godunko
2015-01-29  8:50               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29 10:25                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-01-29 12:31                   ` Vadim Godunko
2015-01-29 10:29                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-01-29 13:19                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29 14:21                     ` G.B.
2015-01-29 15:06                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29 14:41                     ` G.B.
2015-01-29 15:11                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29 12:23                 ` G.B.
2015-01-29 12:47                   ` Vadim Godunko
2015-01-29 14:06                     ` G.B.
2015-01-27 22:44           ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-28  1:16             ` David Botton
2015-01-28 19:29               ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-27  6:18         ` Shark8
2015-01-27 11:18         ` Brian Drummond
2015-01-28 19:12           ` Jerry Petrey
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-01-09 21:58 GNAT GPL is not shareware Randy Brukardt
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