Why is ada dead?

Why is ada dead?

[raj]

On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:45:12 -0400, "Marin David Condic"
<marin.condic.auntie.spam@pacemicro.com> wrote:

>That's rather presuming that all business decisions are made on some sort of
>rational basis. Figure that languages develop constituencies - Java got a
>stron constituency from a lot of C/C++ programmers who found it to have
>advantages, but wasn't too far from what they were used to. They had some
>help from the marketing guys who sold them on how "cool" it was. The poor
>sap who manages the organization has grown far from being able to keep up
>with technical innovations, etc., and has to trust his staff to tell him
>what is the "right" decision WRT languages. His techno-dweebs say "Java is
>the hip thing!" and he's got to believe them, so migration is made that way.


I am now hearing of increasing numbers of programmers  who will only
take on jobs if they involve Java and JSP !
Their rationale is that they do not want to lose their skill set by
working in languages that are not commercially hot.

re: Why is ada dead?

[raj]

On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 15:54:57 GMT, Ted Dennison<dennison@telepath.com>
wrote:
>The other is to start developing lots of "cool" stuff with it. *That*, I think
>we can do. Right now the best example of this that I know of is GVD
>(http://libre.act-europe.fr/gvd/ ), but perhaps I'm a werido for thinking
>debuggers are cool. :-)

The Ada community ( like the lisp comunity: yes I do know about Paul
Graham's 49 million dollar sale to Yahoo ..) seem better at debating
the benefits of the language than actually writing commercially
visible software . 

Re: Why is ada dead?

[James Rogers]

raj wrote:
> 
> I am now hearing of increasing numbers of programmers  who will only
> take on jobs if they involve Java and JSP !
> Their rationale is that they do not want to lose their skill set by
> working in languages that are not commercially hot.

Where will those programmers be when the next hot technology comes
along? What is wrong with the money available from languages that are
not at the top of the technology fad list? 

People who react to any kind of fad like this are riding the tip of
the whip. They are completely at the mercy of the decisions of other
unthinking people. They feel safe because they are surrounded by
lots of other lemmings. That does not actually make them safe when
the lemming heard starts hurtling over the cliff. 

I have always believed I was responsible for my own career. I am also
responsible for finding work that satisfies me. I cannot achieve any
level of control over my work if I do not actively choose the kind of
work I do, and the tools I use.

The mindset eager to follow fads is, IMHO, an indication of a very
insecure personality. Fad followers are continually looking for the
affirmation of others to improve their own self image. The continuing
search for the next fad is chaotic. It engenders psychotic reactions
against reason, stabiity, and even custom. In summary, it is a 
strong force against civilization and culture. It is an attempt to
find security in the ephemeral, stability in chaos, and satisfaction
in mindless action.

Jim Rogers
Colorado Springs, Colorado USA

re: Why is ada dead?

[Gautier Write-only-address]

>The Ada community ( like the lisp comunity: yes I do know about Paul 
>Graham's 49 million dollar sale to Yahoo ..) seem better at debating the 
>benefits of the language than actually writing commercially visible 
>software .

In general the debating community is better at debating than the
writing community...

G.
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Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Re: Why is ada dead?

[Stefan Skoglund]

raj wrote:
> The Ada community ( like the lisp comunity: yes I do know about Paul
> Graham's 49 million dollar sale to Yahoo ..) seem better at debating
> the benefits of the language than actually writing commercially
> visible software .

The Ada system houses should really do the Ada Airlines PR
gimmick !!

They should also do the Ada railway gimmick to...
hmm, not good railways is seen by americans as being obsolete...
hmm, no american would probably believe what the SNCF did
a few days ago... (a special run between Calais and Marseille)

Re: Why is ada dead?

[James Rogers]

Stefan Skoglund wrote:
> 
> raj wrote:
> > The Ada community ( like the lisp comunity: yes I do know about Paul
> > Graham's 49 million dollar sale to Yahoo ..) seem better at debating
> > the benefits of the language than actually writing commercially
> > visible software .
> 
> The Ada system houses should really do the Ada Airlines PR
> gimmick !!
> 
> They should also do the Ada railway gimmick to...
> hmm, not good railways is seen by americans as being obsolete...
> hmm, no american would probably believe what the SNCF did
> a few days ago... (a special run between Calais and Marseille)

Oh, you mean the trip did not take three days, with frequent stops
to allow freight the right of way, and to allow maintenance crews
to repair 100 year old rails?

Nope. No American would believe that. 

American railroads currently carry more traffic than ever before in
their history. The plain truth, however, is that only a tiny fraction
of that traffic is passenger. Almost all is freight.

Here in Colorado Springs, the rails are busy day and night with
freight traffic. The largest fraction of that is trains carrying
coal. Every day there are several trains of over two kilometers
length carrying nothing but coal from the coal mines of
Wyoming and Idaho.

Of course, we do have one little passenger train in our area.
That would be the train that travels to the top of Pike's Peak.
The equipment for that train was purchased from Switzerland
a long time ago. The track is steep enough to require a cog
rail system. The train route rises 8000 feet (2.4 Km) in about 
12 miles (19.3 km) to a final altitude of 14110 feet (4.3 Km).
This is far too steep for normal trains.

Some of that coal stops in Colorado Springs. We generate our
electricity from burning coal. We also provide all the power our
city needs from local power plants. We do this with negligable
air polution. Recently the American Lung Association declared that
Colorado Springs has the third cleanest air of all American
cities. As an example, on an average day I can clearly see 
mountains over 70 miles away. That is not bad for average air
quality. On a good day I can see mountains over 200 miles
away. Today I can only see about 70 miles, but we are currently
having thunderstorms.

I will be surprised if the US ever develops a train that can 
compete with the French TGV. In the West the population is too
sparse to support the cost. In the East the cost of acquiring the
right of way would be too expensive. Current rail lines could not
be converted because they contain too many sharp turns to support
high speed rail travel. 

Jim Rogers
Colorado Springs, Colorado USA

Re: Why is ada dead?

[Stefan Skoglund]

James Rogers wrote:
> I will be surprised if the US ever develops a train that can
> compete with the French TGV. In the West the population is too
> sparse to support the cost. In the East the cost of acquiring the
> right of way would be too expensive. Current rail lines could not
> be converted because they contain too many sharp turns to support
> high speed rail travel.

Ok i will numerate the areas of the US which i think has
potential:
Illinois (Chicago-St Louis, Chicago-Mpls, Chicago-Detroit)
Washingto-Boston (fixing a number of nasty curves along the corridor)
NorthWest (portland-vancouver)
Florida
California

The Acela train could be competitive in the East and also
California. And then we have the tilting TGV version.

The North-East corridor can be improved by eliminating a number
of nasty curves but it would mean investing maybe 1 bn dollar
while fighting the nimby's.

The problem is getting people onboard in sufficient numbers
and also US citites is usually much more decentralized than european
ones and they also usually has a much worser commuting system
(LA is prob the worst one)
Chicago is bad too due to the rapid expansion west into Illinois
farmlands.

Colorado could be interesting too.
Col Springs-Denver

A worse problem is US railways disbelief in electrification but
they have part-good reasons to dislike it.