Re: [OT] price of doing science (was: No call for Ada...)

Re: [OT] price of doing science (was: No call for Ada...)

[Alexander E. Kopilovich]

Marius Amado Alves wrote:

> Believe me, it's perceived as the "price", and not at all "natural", at
> least by the vast majority of scientists, form all over the world, and
> particulary Europe, I've been working with in various institutions for the
> last decade or so.

A scientist, who explicitly asks to believe him regarding a non-private issue
in which he apparently did not conduct any scientific research, looks somehow
strange.

How do you know what those many (vast majority) scientists to whom your are
referring do perceive? You could see only that they displayed publicly (and
the tradition requires them to display distaste for those purely
organizational matters).

> A scientist's dream is to have some department take care
> of all aspects except the scientific when preparing and managing projects.

"We all dream a lot -- some are lucky, some are not" (Rice & Webber, Joseph
and Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat; by the way, I recommend you this opera -
it's a good picture of some scientist's ideal).




Alexander Kopilovich                      aek@vib.usr.pu.ru
Saint-Petersburg
Russia

Re: [OT] price of doing science (was: No call for Ada...)

[Marius Amado Alves]

On Friday 30 April 2004 16:25, Alexander E. Kopilovich wrote:
> Marius Amado Alves wrote:
> > Believe me, it's perceived as the "price", and not at all "natural", at
> > least by the vast majority of scientists, form all over the world, and
> > particulary Europe, I've been working with in various institutions for
> > the last decade or so.
>
> A scientist, who explicitly asks to believe him regarding a non-private
> issue in which he apparently did not conduct any scientific research, looks
> somehow strange.

It is a private issue. I was offering my experience.

> How do you know what those many (vast majority) scientists to whom your are
> referring do perceive?

We talk.

> You could see only that they displayed publicly (and
> the tradition requires them to display distaste for those purely
> organizational matters).

Maybe there is a preverted clerk-at-spirit disguising as a scientist out 
there, but he must be one in a million.

[OT] price of doing science (was: No call for Ada...)

[Marius Amado Alves]

"Modern science deals also with budgets, management, conferences, grants,
degrees and citations." (Kopilovich)

"That's scientific bureaucracy. It is merely the price scientists should pay
for having an ability to do science." (Kasakov)

"No, these days [the] majority of professional scientists recognize all that
not as the price, but as the elements of [a] more or less natural
collaborative environment." (Kopilovich)

Believe me, it's perceived as the "price", and not at all "natural", at
least by the vast majority of scientists, form all over the world, and
particulary Europe, I've been working with in various institutions for the
last decade or so. A scientist's dream is to have some department take care
of all aspects except the scientific when preparing and managing projects.
Let me tell you that in academic research centers we loose a lot of
opportunities because we don't have that department. And we don't have it
because we're always on a short budget and prefer to spend it in strictly
scientific activities. Yes it's a vicious circle. (I expect *industrial*
research centers e.g. PARC to have such departments, but I have no inside
knowledge.)