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From: "Alexander E. Kopilovich" <aek@VB1162.spb.edu>
To: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org
Subject: Re: Ada used in General Aviation (GA) applications?
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 03:41:39 +0400 (MSD)
Date: 2004-05-14T03:41:39+04:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <mailman.131.1084492055.313.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <FoadncQeqoDnVz7dRVn-sQ@megapath.net>; from Randy Brukardt at Thu, 13 May 2004 14:20:30 -0500

Randy Brukardt wrote:

> > in lots of business sectors
> > (the ones that generate money for compiler vendors) time to market is
> > *everything*. All the maintenance costs and long term bug problems in
> > the world pale in comparison to "Time To Market".
>
> In which case, Ada is doomed

So far Ada is well alive (presence of several maintained compilers is
evident indication of that). SPARK gradually gains popularity. So the meaning
of "doomed" here is quite unclear. 

>  (and we all probably are, because buggy programs will kill us).

Not at all, those buggy programs will kill themselves before they can reach
most of us. And this is good that those programs are buggy enough, because
otherwise they will be able to reach too many of us.

> Ada is about building programs the right way, with
> few bugs and ability to fix/enhance in the future.

This claim is too universal and therefore inevitably wrong. There can't be
a universal right way to build programs for all application domains and in
all circumstances and for all reasonable requirements (which are in turn,
dictated by circumstances).

> None of that matters in
> the least when time to market is everything. Ship any old crap, and fix it
> next time. Or never bother.

Moreover, the market (and the vendors) really needs no-so-good products for
two purposes: first. too good products need not to be replaced with better
products often enough; second, not-so-good products are needed for justifying
higher prices for better products of the same kind offered at the same time.
(Perhaps someone will call this cynical, but it isn't - it is just a careful
observation.)

> If the world does not start insisting on programs that actually work (and
> thus reduce the time to market pressure), then there is no hope.

The world will never insist on that because the world does not know (and can't
know) what does it mean "actually work" for computer programs. The world
evaluates whole things, but not parts of them - the parts belong to
specialists.




Alexander Kopilovich                      aek@vib.usr.pu.ru
Saint-Petersburg
Russia




  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-05-13 23:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 119+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-05-10  9:17 Ada used in General Aviation (GA) applications? Kai Glaesner
2004-05-10 11:39 ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-10 17:59   ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-05-11 11:38     ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-10 18:28   ` Bernd Specht
2004-05-10 20:10     ` Martin Dowie
2004-05-11  7:37       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-05-11  9:45         ` Bernd Specht
2004-05-11  9:52       ` Bernd Specht
2004-05-11 11:50         ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-12  0:07           ` Richard  Riehle
2004-05-12 12:21             ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-12 15:36             ` Robert C. Leif
2004-05-11 19:34         ` Bernd Trog
2004-05-11 20:46           ` Bernd Specht
2004-05-12 17:09             ` Mike Silva
2004-05-12 18:51               ` Bernd Specht
2004-05-13  5:50                 ` Pascal Obry
2004-05-13  7:21                 ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2004-05-13  8:10                   ` Bernd Specht
2004-05-13  8:57                     ` Vinzent 'Gadget' Hoefler
2004-05-13  9:27                     ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-05-13 11:46                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-13 19:20                       ` Randy Brukardt
2004-05-13 21:00                         ` tmoran
2004-05-13 23:41                         ` Alexander E. Kopilovich [this message]
2004-05-14  6:44                         ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-05-14 13:54                           ` Andersen Jacob Sparre
2004-05-17  5:27                             ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-05-17 11:53                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-14 22:31                           ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-05-15  9:05                             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-05-15 11:46                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-05-16 16:48                               ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-05-17  6:35                                 ` Time to market, was: " Anders Wirzenius
2004-05-17 12:17                                 ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-18  1:05                                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-05-18  7:58                                     ` Peter Amey
     [not found]                                     ` <40A9EFFC.7090708@noplace.com>
2004-05-19  0:45                                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-05-17 12:04                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-17  6:09                             ` Anders Wirzenius
2004-05-18  4:45                               ` Simon Wright
2004-05-17 11:58                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-17  6:15                           ` Martin Krischik
2004-05-17 11:48                         ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-13 16:45                     ` Pascal Obry
2004-05-13 17:05                       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2004-05-13 20:59                         ` Bartłomiej Świercz
2004-05-13 21:06                         ` Pascal Obry
2004-05-14  1:07                           ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-05-13 22:37                         ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-05-14  6:41                         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-05-13 19:30                     ` Bernd Trog
2004-05-13 16:17                   ` Mike Silva
2004-05-11 20:15         ` Martin Dowie
2004-05-12 12:30           ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-13  7:55             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-05-13 12:01               ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-13 13:22                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-05-17 12:25                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-17 13:11                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-05-13 19:29                 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-05-14 10:45                   ` Kai Glaesner
2004-05-14 22:35                     ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-05-17 12:26                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-17 19:29                     ` Randy Brukardt
2004-05-18  1:09                       ` Jeffrey Carter
     [not found]                         ` <40A9F260.9080300@noplace.com>
2004-05-19  0:50                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-05-19  1:34                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-06-06  9:48                         ` I R T
2004-05-18  4:50                       ` Simon Wright
     [not found]                         ` <40A9F38C.9080003@noplace.com>
2004-05-18 21:05                           ` Simon Wright
2004-06-06  9:51                             ` I R T
2004-05-18 12:05                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-19 17:17                         ` Randy Brukardt
2004-05-19 22:21                           ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-20 19:10                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-05-21 11:39                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-19 22:42                         ` Jeff C,
2004-05-20 11:36                           ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-21  1:46                             ` Jeff C,
2004-05-21  5:46                               ` Richard  Riehle
2004-05-21  5:44                             ` Simon Wright
2004-06-06 10:01                               ` I R T
2004-05-12  2:32         ` Steve
2004-05-12 12:34           ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-13  6:21         ` Richard  Riehle
2004-05-13  8:30           ` End of "discussion" (was Re: Ada used in General Aviation (GA) applications?) Bernd Specht
2004-05-13 15:14             ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-05-13 12:09           ` Ada used in General Aviation (GA) applications? Marin David Condic
2004-05-13 14:58           ` Martin Dowie
2004-05-13 20:37             ` Symbian OS (was: Re: Ada used in General Aviation (GA) applications?) Alexander E. Kopilovich
2004-05-11 11:41     ` Ada used in General Aviation (GA) applications? Marin David Condic
2004-05-11 17:28       ` Bernd Specht
2004-05-12 12:42         ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-13  8:00           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-05-12 10:01     ` Peter Amey
2004-05-12 12:50       ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-12 14:45         ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-05-13  7:43         ` Peter Amey
2004-05-13 12:17           ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-12 17:13       ` Mike Silva
2004-05-10 21:31 ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-05-11 11:29   ` Martin Dowie
2004-05-11 20:12     ` Martin Dowie
2004-05-11 14:29   ` Britt Snodgrass
2004-06-06  9:30 ` I R T
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-05-12  9:06 Lionel.DRAGHI
2004-05-12 12:52 ` Marin David Condic
2004-05-12 17:58 ` Bernd Specht
2004-05-12 18:13   ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-05-12 18:28     ` Mark Lorenzen
2004-05-13 13:31   ` Mike Silva
2004-05-12 14:25 Lionel.DRAGHI
2004-05-13  7:57 Lionel.DRAGHI
2004-05-13  8:39 Lionel.DRAGHI
2004-05-14 11:44 Lionel.DRAGHI
2004-05-14 18:11 ` Martin Dowie
2004-05-16 18:53   ` Robert I. Eachus
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