Interesting and historical document

Interesting and historical document

[Novato]

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd06xx/EWD660.PDF

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Frank J. Lhota]

Has Dijkstra liked ANY language invented after Algol?

Re: Interesting and historical document

[John English]

Novato wrote:
> 
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd06xx/EWD660.PDF

Interesting indeed. Having never seen the original Green proposal,
it seems that quite a lot got changed before it reemerged as Ada.
Does anyone have a copy of the original Green proposal they could
put online as well? (Also Red and the other colour -- was it Yellow?)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 John English              | mailto:je@brighton.ac.uk
 Senior Lecturer           | http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je
 Dept. of Computing        | ** NON-PROFIT CD FOR CS STUDENTS **
 University of Brighton    |    -- see http://burks.bton.ac.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Ted Dennison]

"Frank J. Lhota" <NOSPAM.FrankLho@rcn.com> wrote in message news:<atpo30$14m$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...
> Has Dijkstra liked ANY language invented after Algol?

I believe this relates to an early draft of the language, not to Ada
83 itself. Note on the top of the second page that he complains about
the redundancy of having a loop construct which Ada does not in fact
now have.

I also noticed some complaints (eg: problems creating non-FIFO
scheduling, pg. 6) that were addressed in Ada95.

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Robert A Duff]

John English <je@brighton.ac.uk> writes:

> Interesting indeed. Having never seen the original Green proposal,
> it seems that quite a lot got changed before it reemerged as Ada.
> Does anyone have a copy of the original Green proposal they could
> put online as well? (Also Red and the other colour -- was it Yellow?)

There were four: Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow.  At some point, they
narrowed it down to Red and Green.  Then just Green, which evolved into
Ada.

- Bob

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Wojtek Narczynski]

Would be interesting if someone wrote a defense note to this...

Regards,
Wojtek

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Rod Chapman]

"Frank J. Lhota" <NOSPAM.FrankLho@rcn.com> wrote in message news:<atpo30$14m$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...
> Has Dijkstra liked ANY language invented after Algol?

Dunno, but I bet he would have lived SPARK... :-)
 - Rod

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Wes Groleau]

> Interesting indeed. Having never seen the original Green proposal,
> it seems that quite a lot got changed before it reemerged as Ada.

I purchased a textbook on Ada, which turned out to have
been written prior to 1983.  Several things it taught
are not part of Ada.  The only one I remember now is
assertions.

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

John English fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 18 December 
2002 04:39 am:

> Interesting indeed. Having never seen the original Green proposal,

        I'm not even sure if I have the original Ada textbook (which came 
after the name was chosen but before I graduated in 1980)

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Re: Interesting and historical document

[Grein, Christoph]

> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:20:58 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com>
> Subject: Re: Interesting and historical document
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> 
> John English <je@brighton.ac.uk> writes:
> 
> > Interesting indeed. Having never seen the original Green proposal,
> > it seems that quite a lot got changed before it reemerged as Ada.
> > Does anyone have a copy of the original Green proposal they could
> > put online as well? (Also Red and the other colour -- was it Yellow?)

         Ironman however begat Steelman. 

         And lo, from him emerged of colours four:
         Red, Green, Yellow and Blue.

         And the colours were weighed and found wanting
         except one. 

         And ANSI spoketh to Green:
         "Ada shalt be thy name henceforth
         and servest all mankind
         in the large as in the small." 

Re: Interesting and historical document

[John English]

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
> John English fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 18 December
> 2002 04:39 am:
> 
> > Interesting indeed. Having never seen the original Green proposal,
> 
>         I'm not even sure if I have the original Ada textbook (which came
> after the name was chosen but before I graduated in 1980)

The preliminary spec was published in SIGPLAN Notices in 1979, but
it was already called Ada by then. However, it was reasonably similar
to the final form of the standard by then. Dijkstra's comments about
Green make me think that Green must have been a very different beast
indeed from what was eventually published in 1979, and I'd be curious
to know more about it. It would also be nice to see the other proposals
-- IIRC, Red was based on Algol 68, but that's all I know about it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 John English              | mailto:je@brighton.ac.uk
 Senior Lecturer           | http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je
 Dept. of Computing        | ** NON-PROFIT CD FOR CS STUDENTS **
 University of Brighton    |    -- see http://burks.bton.ac.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Rod Chapman]

> Dunno, but I bet he would have lived SPARK... :-)

Sorry...._liked_ SPARK... :-)

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Karl Kleine]

John English <je@brighton.ac.uk> wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> 
>> John English fed this fish to the penguins on Wednesday 18 December
>> 2002 04:39 am:
>> 
>> > Interesting indeed. Having never seen the original Green proposal,
>> 
>>         I'm not even sure if I have the original Ada textbook (which came
>> after the name was chosen but before I graduated in 1980)

> The preliminary spec was published in SIGPLAN Notices in 1979, but
> it was already called Ada by then. However, it was reasonably similar
> to the final form of the standard by then. Dijkstra's comments about
> Green make me think that Green must have been a very different beast
> indeed from what was eventually published in 1979, and I'd be curious
> to know more about it. It would also be nice to see the other proposals
> -- IIRC, Red was based on Algol 68, but that's all I know about it.

> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  John English              | mailto:je@brighton.ac.uk
>  Senior Lecturer           | http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je
>  Dept. of Computing        | ** NON-PROFIT CD FOR CS STUDENTS **
>  University of Brighton    |    -- see http://burks.bton.ac.uk
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

I still have the Green language definition and its rationale, as well
as the RED language proposal. It's a long time, and I have to check
my archives, as as far as I recall right now, RED was more in the
Pascal tradition. I will check and maybe make it available also on
my history page
	http://www.fh-jena.de/~kleine/history
where you can find a number of language manuals of time gone by.
(No Ada entry yet, but that will also come sometime soon also)

________________________________________________________
Prof. Karl Kleine          http://www.fh-jena.de/~kleine
Fachhochschule Jena        kleine@fh-jena.de
Carl-Zeiss-Promenade 2     +49-3641-205-502 [fax -503]
D-07745 Jena, Germany

RE: Interesting and historical document

[Steven Deller]

Karl,
I think it would be great if we could get a PDF of these documents on
the Web.  I believe the Ada Resource Association could help get these to
a PDF form, and I'm pretty sure they would add it to the AdaIC web site
(that they support) in a "history" section (with appropriate references
to your help getting this up, as well as pointers to your web site --
quid pro quo and all that).

Regards,
Steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org 
> [mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of Karl Kleine
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 11:25 AM
> To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
> Subject: Re: Interesting and historical document
> 
> 
> I still have the Green language definition and its rationale, 
> as well as the RED language proposal. It's a long time, and I 
> have to check my archives, as as far as I recall right now, 
> RED was more in the Pascal tradition. I will check and maybe 
> make it available also on my history page
> 	http://www.fh-jena.de/~kleine/history
> where you can find a number of language manuals of time gone 
> by. (No Ada entry yet, but that will also come sometime soon also)
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> Prof. Karl Kleine          http://www.fh-jena.de/~kleine
> Fachhochschule Jena        kleine@fh-jena.de
> Carl-Zeiss-Promenade 2     +49-3641-205-502 [fax -503]
> D-07745 Jena, Germany _______________________________________________
> comp.lang.ada mailing list
> comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org 
> http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ad> a
> 

Re: Interesting and historical document

[Prof Karl Kleine]

In article <mailman.1040322603.29182.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org> you wrote:
> Karl,
> I think it would be great if we could get a PDF of these documents on
> the Web.  I believe the Ada Resource Association could help get these to
> a PDF form, and I'm pretty sure they would add it to the AdaIC web site
> (that they support) in a "history" section (with appropriate references
> to your help getting this up, as well as pointers to your web site --
> quid pro quo and all that).

> Regards,
> Steve

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org 
>> [mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of Karl Kleine
>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 11:25 AM
>> To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
>> Subject: Re: Interesting and historical document
>> 
>> 
>> I still have the Green language definition and its rationale, 
>> as well as the RED language proposal. It's a long time, and I 
>> have to check my archives, as as far as I recall right now, 
>> RED was more in the Pascal tradition. I will check and maybe 
>> make it available also on my history page
>> 	http://www.fh-jena.de/~kleine/history
>> where you can find a number of language manuals of time gone 
>> by. (No Ada entry yet, but that will also come sometime soon also)
>> 

	Steve, just wait a few days...
	I've already the two green books here in my office,
	waiting to be scanned. As there are bound, I have to
	do that manually, can't use the feeder on my scanner.
	The other stuff is in boxes at home. 

	I'll send a message when they're ready. But do also
	feel free to poll and read a bit of those other things
	also. If you have further proposals what to add or
	even have some document(s) that you can volunteer,
	the better.

Best regards,
Karl


________________________________________________________
Prof. Karl Kleine          http://www.fh-jena.de/~kleine
Fachhochschule Jena        kleine@fh-jena.de
Carl-Zeiss-Promenade 2     +49-3641-205-502 [fax -503]
D-07745 Jena, Germany