GPS - A new kind of IDE?

GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

Is it?

Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the 'new'
statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that isn't available in
other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda etc. Possibly more by default,
but...

I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
between GPS and GPS.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3cd7b506.11293318@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Is it?
> 
> Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the 
> 'new' statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that 
> isn't available in other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda 
> etc. Possibly more by default, but...

Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
is that GPS is Free Software. If there ever was a case in
which you want the sources available, because you may want
to modify things, an IDE is such a case :-) We consider
that this is a really very significant point.
 
> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible 
> confusion between GPS and GPS.

Well so far, it seem to be helping spread the name recognition, which
is the general idea :-) What could
be better than people arguing over the name to create
name recognition?

If all the world divides up into those who think its confusing that
GPS is called GPS, and those who don't
think so, then all the world knows the name :-) :-)

At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a 
little bug :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Martin Dowie]

"Robert Dewar" <dewar@gnat.com> wrote in message
news:5ee5b646.0205071834.3b5c959@posting.google.com...
> Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
> is that GPS is Free Software. If there ever was a case in
> which you want the sources available, because you may want
> to modify things, an IDE is such a case :-) We consider
> that this is a really very significant point.

Any idea when we can get hold of these sources?
Or the full blown public GPS for that matter? :-)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

On 7 May 2002 19:34:15 -0700, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote:

>john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3cd7b506.11293318@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> Is it?
>> 
>> Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the 
>> 'new' statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that 
>> isn't available in other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda 
>> etc. Possibly more by default, but...
>
>Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
>is that GPS is Free Software.

What about KDevelop?

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Martin Dowie]

"John McCabe" <john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com> wrote in message
news:3cd8df06.1732721@news.demon.co.uk...
[snip]
> >Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
> >is that GPS is Free Software.
>
> What about KDevelop?

Unix-only :-(

Looks lovely though!!

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Wed, 8 May 2002 08:49:11 +0100, Martin Dowie wrote:
> Any idea when we can get hold of these sources?
> Or the full blown public GPS for that matter? :-)

I guess we should be patient until Q4 at least :-)

Preben

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Wed, 8 May 2002 09:34:45 +0100, Martin Dowie wrote:
> Unix-only :-(

Also made in C++, for C/C++ development.

Preben

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Wes Groleau]

> At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a
> little bug :-)

Or with lots of little bugs?

(Kidding, folks--GNAT is a GREAT compiler)

-- 
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau

RE: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Mário Amado Alves]

-----Original Message-----
From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org
[mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of Robert Dewar
Sent: quarta-feira, 8 de Maio de 2002 3:34
To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
Subject: Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?


john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) wrote in message
news:<3cd7b506.11293318@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Is it?
> 
> Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the
> 'new' statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that 
> isn't available in other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda 
> etc. Possibly more by default, but...

Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
is that GPS is Free Software. If there ever was a case in
which you want the sources available, because you may want
to modify things, an IDE is such a case :-) We consider
that this is a really very significant point.
 
> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible
> confusion between GPS and GPS.

Well so far, it seem to be helping spread the name recognition, which is
the general idea :-) What could be better than people arguing over the
name to create name recognition?

If all the world divides up into those who think its confusing that GPS
is called GPS, and those who don't think so, then all the world knows
the name :-) :-)

At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a 
little bug :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies _______________________________________________
comp.lang.ada mailing list
comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada

RE: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Mário Amado Alves]

-----Original Message-----
From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org
[mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of Robert Dewar
Sent: quarta-feira, 8 de Maio de 2002 3:34
To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
Subject: Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?


john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) wrote in message
news:<3cd7b506.11293318@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Is it?
> 
> Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the
> 'new' statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that 
> isn't available in other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda 
> etc. Possibly more by default, but...

Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
is that GPS is Free Software. If there ever was a case in
which you want the sources available, because you may want
to modify things, an IDE is such a case :-) We consider
that this is a really very significant point.
 
> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible
> confusion between GPS and GPS.

Well so far, it seem to be helping spread the name recognition, which is
the general idea :-) What could be better than people arguing over the
name to create name recognition?

If all the world divides up into those who think its confusing that GPS
is called GPS, and those who don't think so, then all the world knows
the name :-) :-)

At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a 
little bug :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies _______________________________________________
comp.lang.ada mailing list
comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada

RE: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Mário Amado Alves]

Sorry. I accidently hit the Reply button in repetition. Now you all know
I was lurking...
--MAA

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Richard Riehle]

John McCabe wrote:

> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> between GPS and GPS.

Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
but it's obviously not my call.

Richard Riehle

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Thu, 09 May 2002 19:22:57 -0700, Richard Riehle wrote:
> 
> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.

http://gpe.handhelds.org/index.shtml

Preben
-- 

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Peter Hermann]

Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote:
> John McCabe wrote:
>> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
>> between GPS and GPS.
> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.
> Richard Riehle

I strongly recommend to let GPS its well known original definition.
It is also not pleasant to have e.g. several "GLIDE"s, "GLADE"s etc.
and I would wonder about someone who called his product e.g "USA"
or "LA" etc..
Even Ada does not allow to use its 69 keywords as ordinary identifiers ;-)

-- 
--Peter Hermann(49)0711-685-3611 fax3758 ica2ph@csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de
--Pfaffenwaldring 27 Raum 114, D-70569 Stuttgart Uni Computeranwendungen
--http://www.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de/homes/ph/
--Team Ada: "C'mon people let the world begin" (Paul McCartney)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote in message news:<3CDB2F01.78B66E87@adaworks.com>...
> John McCabe wrote:
> 
> > I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> > between GPS and GPS.
> 
> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.

Actually for us, it seems an unexpected benefit for people to be
arguing about the name -- definitely very helpful ;-)

We like the name, so it is likely to stay :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote in message news:<3CDB2F01.78B66E87@adaworks.com>...

> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.

Just to keep people updated on the state of the software itself
(which I suspect for most people is more interesting than the
the name :-), we are progressing towards the next internal
release, and will be commencing formal beta testing very
shortly (we will be letting our customers know more details
as the exact schedule is worked out). We still consider that
things are on track for a release of the GNAT Programming
System for GNAT Pro in the fourth quarter.

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

P.S. I am in the process of switching from my OS/2 based
environment to a GPS based environment, so I am getting to
know and like this environment quite well :-)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Marin David Condic]

I looked over the tour of GPS and was suitably whelmed. This is the sort of
thing that Ada needs to have available. (Which obviously leads to the
question of if/when it will be available to the general public - or, more
precisely, mere mortals who can't afford ACT support contracts. :-) It looks
incredibly spiffy and really fills a major gap that has existed between Ada
and other languages.

But I'd have to agree that (while name recognition is nice) colliding names
with a popular navigation system (especially given the context in which Ada
has traditionally been a big deal) is likely to lead to confusion. It is
most likely to cause trouble with web searches. ("Hey I heard these guys
talking about something called 'GPS' on this newsgroup and they seemed to be
thrilled about it. Gee... I wonder if I can find out more about it from
Google???") Or in word-of-mouth communication (Think of the overheard
conversation where someone goes "Oh yeah. I know all about that thing 'GPS'
they're talking about. I don't need to investigate further." I once had a
headhunter presume that "Adabas" had something to do with "Ada" on my resume
and clearly she didn't know what she was talking about, but kept sending
inquiries anyway.)

That's my $0.02 worth of input on it, but as you observe, that's not our
call. But if a dozen people tell you that you look sick, maybe you need to
lie down and rest a while no matter how good you feel? :-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"Richard Riehle" <richard@adaworks.com> wrote in message
news:3CDB2F01.78B66E87@adaworks.com...
>
> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.
>

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Stephen Leake]

Peter Hermann <ica2ph@iris16.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de> writes:

> I strongly recommend to let GPS its well known original definition.

Assuming you mean "Global Positioning Satellite", I think that is in a
sufficiently different domain that overloading with "GNAT Programming
System" is clear from context. There are only so many meaningful three
letter acronyms!

> It is also not pleasant to have e.g. several "GLIDE"s, "GLADE"s etc.

I only know of one GLIDE, but I do know of two GLADEs; one is the GNAT
distributed annex implementation, one the Gtk GUI builder. I agree
these are from sufficiently similar domains that the overloading is
sometimes confusing.

> and I would wonder about someone who called his product e.g "USA" or
> "LA" etc.. Even Ada does not allow to use its 69 keywords as
> ordinary identifiers ;-)

I like the name US Robotics, even if they don't make robots anymore
:). Hmm, guess they got bought by 3Com.

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Stephen Leake]

dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) writes:

> Just to keep people updated on the state of the software itself
> (which I suspect for most people is more interesting than the
> the name :-), 

I'm certainly more interested in the software, but the name is all we
have at the moment :).

Here's a real question that was not answered by the pdf files: is
there a scripting language in GPS? One of the best features of Emacs
(my current favorite IDE) is that it provides a very powerful
scripting language. Some would say that is also it's most intimidating
feature. Perhaps a less powerful scripting language would be
appropriate for GPS. 

At the very least, I want to be able to bind keys to predefined
operations. Beyond that, I'd like user-defined keyboard macros, and
simple scripted macros that call predefined operations. Beyond that,
I'd like elisp, but possibly with a more Ada-like syntax :). Maybe
TPU?

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[David C. Hoos]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Leake" <stephen.a.leake.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
To: <comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?


> Peter Hermann <ica2ph@iris16.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de> writes:
> 
> > I strongly recommend to let GPS its well known original definition.
> 
> Assuming you mean "Global Positioning Satellite", I think that is in a
> sufficiently different domain that overloading with "GNAT Programming
> System" is clear from context. There are only so many meaningful three
> letter acronyms!
> 
Well, maybe it's not so well-known -- GPS really means
Global Positioning System.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Rajat Datta]

In article <uit5w2ijg.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov>, Stephen Leake wrote:
> At the very least, I want to be able to bind keys to predefined
> operations. Beyond that, I'd like user-defined keyboard macros, and
> simple scripted macros that call predefined operations. Beyond that,
> I'd like elisp, but possibly with a more Ada-like syntax :). Maybe
> TPU?

Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
replaceable with emacs (which some of us die hard emacs users are very
grateful for, since its keystroke combinations are by now hard-wired
into our neurons), at least 95% of anything you do on an IDE will be
configurable.

rajat

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Arnaud Charlet]

> Here's a real question that was not answered by the pdf files: is
> there a scripting language in GPS? One of the best features of Emacs
> (my current favorite IDE) is that it provides a very powerful
> scripting language. Some would say that is also it's most intimidating
> feature. Perhaps a less powerful scripting language would be
> appropriate for GPS.

Right, that's what is planned.
Currently you can easily change colors, fonts, define key bindings, add
menu items.
The next step will be to have a GPS shell where you have access to all
the GPS high level capabilities, and that every module could have access
to, including external processes. This won't be quite as powerful as
elisp,
but I believe that in practice, this will be enough, and less
frightening.
And if that's still not enough, as Robert said, there's always the
possibility to write Ada code to enhance GPS.

Arno

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

Peter Hermann <ica2ph@iris16.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote in message news:<abg81p$341$1@news.uni-stuttgart.de>...
> Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote:
>  to have e.g. several "GLIDE"s, "GLADE"s etc.
> and I would wonder about someone who called his product 
> e.g "USA"
> or "LA" etc..
How about someone who calls his product Ada

= American Dental Association
= Americans for Democratic Action
= Americans with Disability Act

And I am only including the very familiar uses of this
name, there are many others. The third is fun, there is
a nice poster with a big picture of Clinton, with the
caption "I ask you to support ADA", unfortunately it 
is not our Ada.

As for USA, to what are you referring?

United Space Alliance
The television network
USA.NET, the ebusiness company

Again, I only mention the very familiar uses (did I
leave one out? :-)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Marin David Condic]

"David C. Hoos" <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1021042382.31524.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Leake" <stephen.a.leake.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
> To: <comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?
>
>
> > Peter Hermann <ica2ph@iris16.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de> writes:
> >
> > > I strongly recommend to let GPS its well known original definition.
> >
> > Assuming you mean "Global Positioning Satellite", I think that is in a
> > sufficiently different domain that overloading with "GNAT Programming
> > System" is clear from context. There are only so many meaningful three
> > letter acronyms!
> >
> Well, maybe it's not so well-known -- GPS really means
> Global Positioning System.
>
And the domains aren't all that separate. Ada and GPS (the navigation
thingie) are often coupled together. I worked with both Ada and GPS before
there was an announcement of GPS, so GPS came before GPS and when GPS
finally exists one might use GPS to program GPS... Go figure... :-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com

RE: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Mário Amado Alves]

On names.

ADA

<<
. . .
= American Dental Association
= Americans for Democratic Action
= Americans with Disability Act
. . .
>> (Dewar)

= Ada Distributed Application :-)

And I think "GPS" is fine for the system.

Cheers,
--MAA

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 17:34:18 +0200, Arnaud Charlet wrote:
> The next step will be to have a GPS shell where you have access to all
> the GPS high level capabilities, and that every module could have
> access to, including external processes. This won't be quite as
> powerful as elisp, but I believe that in practice, this will be
> enough, and less frightening.  And if that's still not enough, as
> Robert said, there's always the possibility to write Ada code to
> enhance GPS.

Will it be something like BUSH ?

Preben
-- 
Preben Randhol

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Alexandre E. Kopilovitch]

I found it slightly strange that so many people dislike the name GPS for new
ACT's contribution. For me, this name seems good enough... let's consider some
aspects of that title.
  First, yes, there is an obvious collision, but those GPS'es are from the
different areas, and the intersection of these areas is quite limited. After all,
we see the last names like Smith very often, and very rarely we have a chance
for confusing a man named Smith with a man, which is a smith by profession.
So it is with those GPS'es: one is generic name for a class of devices, while
another is the title for a particular software system - that is, the first is
like "smith", and the second is like "Smith". And at last, ACT's GPS surely
will have versions, and a good part of occurencies will mention not simply
GPS, but GPS n.nn .
  Second, if the ACT's GPS were for Ada language only then perhaps the name
AIDE could be better, but as the ACT's GPS supports multiple languages, there
is little chance to find a simultaneous hit.
  Third, I believe that any good moderm IDE should have a functionality that
really serves the same need as a GPS device does, but relative to a code inventory
instead of the geographical maps. And such a functionality is critically significant
for programmer's productivity, So I think that the title "GPS" may be justified
as a metaphor also.


Alexander Kopilovitch                      aek@vib.usr.pu.ru
Saint-Petersburg
Russia

  

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Richard Riehle]

Robert Dewar wrote:

> As for USA, to what are you referring?
>
> United Space Alliance
> The television network
> USA.NET, the ebusiness company
>
> Again, I only mention the very familiar uses (did I
> leave one out? :-)

Union of South Africa?

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Florian Weimer]

john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) writes:

> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> between GPS and GPS.

In Germany, there is also also "Burda gps", a registrated trademark
covering computer programs, a pending registration of "A-GPS"
(probably a computer program, too), a registred trademark "GPS"
(covering "creation of computer programs"), "GPS SoftwareAtlas"
(similar), "GPS" (for "programming services", "GPS" means
"Gesellschaft f�r Gesch�ftsproze�-Software").  These are all
registrations related to computer programs, so you better shouldn't
call the GNAT Programming System "GPS" on a web page.

I'd be surprised if the trademark situation would be different in the
United States.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Florian Weimer]

john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) writes:

> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> between GPS and GPS.

In Germany, there is also also "Burda gps", a registrated trademark
covering computer programs, a pending registration of "A-GPS"
(probably a computer program, too), a registred trademark "GPS"
(covering "creation of computer programs"), "GPS SoftwareAtlas"
(similar), "GPS" (for "programming services", "GPS" means
"Gesellschaft f�r Gesch�ftsproze�-Software").  These are all
registrations related to computer programs, so you better shouldn't
call the GNAT Programming System "GPS" on a web page.

I'd be surprised if the trademark situation was different in the
United States.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

"Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote in message news:<abgq4f$pai$1@nh.pace.co.uk>...

> and when GPS
> finally exists one might use GPS to program GPS... 

Sounds like a reasonable proposition to me, and we are talking to one
large customer who is planning to do exactly that :-)

Now of course if a programmer clicks on an identifier to go to the
declaration, and thinks that this is being achieved by communicating
with satellites buzzing around the earth, *that* would be confusion :-)

Meanwhile, for a product not even released yet, we seem to be getting
quite a bit of name recognition from this discussion!

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[James Ross]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 09:52:00 -0500, "David C. Hoos"
<david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> wrote:

>Well, maybe it's not so well-known -- GPS really means
>Global Positioning System.

Why should Global Positioning System have exclusive dibs on the
acronym? According to http://www.acronymfinder.com GPS can mean any
one of the following:

Global Positioning System    
Galapagos Islands, Ecuador - Baltra (Airport Code)    
Gallons Per Second    
Gas Pressure Switch    
General Problem Solver    
General Purpose Segment    
General Purpose Separator (at CERN)    
Generalized Phase Shift    
Generalized Processor Sharing    
Geophysical Processor System    
Geophysical Products System    
German Philatelic Society    
Global Priority Service    
Global Product Support    
Go Pound Sand    
Graphical Programming Software    
Great Plains Software    
Ground Processing Station    
Groundwater Protection Strategy    
Guidance Power Supply  
Gunner's Primary Sight    
The Gap, Inc. (stock symbol)  

I Personally like General Problem Solver & Graphical Programming
Software the best :-)
JR

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Sun, 12 May 2002 19:12:56 GMT, James Ross wrote:
> 
> I Personally like General Problem Solver & Graphical Programming
> Software the best :-)

I bet somebody holds the software patents on those in the US too ?

Preben

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Georg Bauhaus]

John McCabe <john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com> wrote:
: 
: I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
: between GPS and GPS.

Could we pronounce GPS "gypsy"?

-- Georg

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Ted Dennison]

"Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote in message news:<abghjk$l3v$1@nh.pace.co.uk>...
> I looked over the tour of GPS and was suitably whelmed. This is the sort of
> thing that Ada needs to have available. (Which obviously leads to the

More to the point, it is the sort of thing that Linux and the Free
Software world needs in general (it does C++ too), and it just happens
to be written in Ada. *That* is precicely the sort of thing that Ada
needs. :-)

Bravo ACT.

-- 
T.E.D. 
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

On 10 May 2002 08:46:43 -0700, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote:

>How about someone who calls his product Ada
>
>= American Dental Association
>= Americans for Democratic Action
>= Americans with Disability Act

These are all acronyms though (ADA) rather than names (Ada).

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:18:03 GMT, Rajat Datta <rajat@austin.rr.com>
wrote:

>Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
>replaceable with emacs

But will you lose any functionality by using Emacs instead of the
integral editor? E.g, with Visual C++ you can use Emacs, but you lose
tons of the functionality unless you start running VisEmacs with it.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <3ce0d39d.4534910@news.demon.co.uk>, john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) writes:
> On 10 May 2002 08:46:43 -0700, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote:
> 
>>How about someone who calls his product Ada
>>
>>= American Dental Association
>>= Americans for Democratic Action
>>= Americans with Disability Act
> 
> These are all acronyms though (ADA) rather than names (Ada).

There are advertisements for ADA programmers.  Sometimes they mean
Ada and sometimes they mean web designers who can make pages that
comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

There are also advertisements for VAX programmers that really mean
Alpha VMS programmers.

I am happy that Ada language processors are much less forgiving than
English language processors.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3ce0d415.4655263@news.demon.co.uk>...
> On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:18:03 GMT, Rajat Datta <rajat@austin.rr.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
> >replaceable with emacs
> 
> But will you lose any functionality by using Emacs instead of the
> integral editor? E.g, with Visual C++ you can use Emacs, but you lose
> tons of the functionality unless you start running VisEmacs with it.

Given that GPS is intended as a major upgrade for current GLIDE users,
who of course are used to EMACS, I think you can safely assume the
answer to this one. The architecture is quite open and can support
multiple editors with full functionality. The trouble with Visual C++
is that it is a closed architecture, so of course it is much harder
to integrate other editors fully.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Ted Dennison]

john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3ce0d415.4655263@news.demon.co.uk>...
> On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:18:03 GMT, Rajat Datta <rajat@austin.rr.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
> >replaceable with emacs
> 
> But will you lose any functionality by using Emacs instead of the
> integral editor? E.g, with Visual C++ you can use Emacs, but you lose
> tons of the functionality unless you start running VisEmacs with it.

From what I read in the slides, Emacs is integrated, as is the default
editor. If you use any other editor, the level of integration (past
simply being invoked) is nil. But since the sources are available, you
can change that (assuming your editor cooperates).

As for Emacs *really* being integrated as well as the default editor,
I'll wait and see.

-- 
T.E.D. 
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Ted Dennison]

Georg Bauhaus <sb463ba@l1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> wrote in message news:<abodo0$9s$2@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de>...
> John McCabe <john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com> wrote:
> : 
> : I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> : between GPS and GPS.
> 
> Could we pronounce GPS "gypsy"?

That's interesting. Whereas gnats are notorious for just being
annoying, gypsy moths are a downright menace. :-)

(reference - http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/morgantown/4557/gmoth/ )

-- 
T.E.D. 
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

On 14 May 2002 07:16:14 -0700, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote:

>john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3ce0d415.4655263@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:18:03 GMT, Rajat Datta <rajat@austin.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
>> >replaceable with emacs
>> 
>> But will you lose any functionality by using Emacs instead of the
>> integral editor? E.g, with Visual C++ you can use Emacs, but you lose
>> tons of the functionality unless you start running VisEmacs with it.
>
>Given that GPS is intended as a major upgrade for current GLIDE users,
>who of course are used to EMACS, I think you can safely assume the
>answer to this one.

I don't like to assume anything :-) but if I can assume that setting
breakpoints in the debugger etc from Emacs is supported, and jumping
to error line then I would be very happy.

>The architecture is quite open and can support
>multiple editors with full functionality. The trouble with Visual C++
>is that it is a closed architecture, so of course it is much harder
>to integrate other editors fully.

This is very true.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Oliver Kellogg]

On 2002-05-08 01:17:01 PST, John McCabe (john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com) wrote:

> What about KDevelop?

I'm looking into this.
(Just finished the general purpose ANTLR grammar for Ada95.
Next comes augmenting it with the kdevelop adasupport specific AST.)

Oliver M. Kellogg

-- okellogg at users dot sourceforge dot net

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

Oliver Kellogg wrote:
> On 2002-05-08 01:17:01 PST, John McCabe (john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com) wrote:
> 
>> What about KDevelop?
> 
> I'm looking into this.
> (Just finished the general purpose ANTLR grammar for Ada95.
> Next comes augmenting it with the kdevelop adasupport specific AST.)

Nice!

-- 
Preben Randhol ---------------- http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", Isaac Asimov

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Oliver Kellogg]

I've just bumped into an interesting data point on
parser contruction with ANTLR regarding parse speed.
ANTLR supports syntactic predicates such as

  (subprog_body) => subprog_body

where the rule subprog_body is applied on trial
and if it turns out not to apply then the parser backs
out and applies the next rule. Terence Parr, inventor
of ANTLR, calls this "infinite lookahead".

This feature makes for a prettier grammar because
it allows more liberal reuse of rules. In the above
example, we can write the subprog_body rule in a
place where also a subprog_spec could be expected;
the parser takes care of resolving the ambiguity.

However, that beauty has its price.

As a test, I submitted the source code of the
Ada Graphics Package (agp95_v0.1_x11/src) to parsing
(38560 LOC, 11851 executable semicolons.)

With usage of syntactic predicate for the subprog_spec/subprog_body
distinction ("pretty" soft-state grammar rule):

real    1m16.635s
user    1m15.930s
sys     0m0.300s

Without usage of syntactic predicate for the subprog_spec/subprog_body
distinction ("ugly" hard-coded state):

real    0m46.058s
user    0m45.110s
sys     0m0.370s

So for kdevelop adasupport I'm going with the hard state rule
for subprograms.

Oliver Kellogg

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Oliver Kellogg]

I need to correct myself on the data that I posted.

I was just about to switch from ANTLR to GNAT for disappointment
with the ANTLR parser speed when it occurred to me that I had been
compiling the ANTLR C++ runtime and the Ada grammar without -O
(optimize.)

After turning on -O, I've had quite a surprise.

Here are the timing figures (test case: Ada files of polyorb-snap-4566/src)

Without -O for runtime and lexer/parser:
real    2m41.298s
user    2m39.200s
sys     0m0.860s

With -O for runtime and lexer/parser:
real    0m9.895s
user    0m8.250s
sys     0m0.890s

For comparison, "gnatgcc -c -gnats" (which is roughly
comparable in effect to what the above parser does)
performs as follows:
real    0m4.042s
user    0m2.030s
sys     0m2.010s

So in this case the hand crafted parser (GNAT) is still
double as fast as the parser automatically generated
from a grammar (ANTLR.)  Not bad IMHO.


Oliver Kellogg wrote:
> I've just bumped into an interesting data point on
> parser contruction with ANTLR regarding parse speed.
> ANTLR supports syntactic predicates such as
>
>   (subprog_body) => subprog_body
>
> where the rule subprog_body is applied on trial
> and if it turns out not to apply then the parser backs
> out and applies the next rule. Terence Parr, inventor
> of ANTLR, calls this "infinite lookahead".
>
> This feature makes for a prettier grammar because
> it allows more liberal reuse of rules. In the above
> example, we can write the subprog_body rule in a
> place where also a subprog_spec could be expected;
> the parser takes care of resolving the ambiguity.
>
> However, that beauty has its price.
>
> As a test, I submitted the source code of the
> Ada Graphics Package (agp95_v0.1_x11/src) to parsing
> (38560 LOC, 11851 executable semicolons.)
>
> With usage of syntactic predicate for the subprog_spec/subprog_body
> distinction ("pretty" soft-state grammar rule):
>
> real    1m16.635s
> user    1m15.930s
> sys     0m0.300s
>
> Without usage of syntactic predicate for the subprog_spec/subprog_body
> distinction ("ugly" hard-coded state):
>
> real    0m46.058s
> user    0m45.110s
> sys     0m0.370s
>
> So for kdevelop adasupport I'm going with the hard state rule
> for subprograms.
>