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From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Subject: Re: what DOES the GPL really say?
Date: 1997/08/11
Date: 1997-08-11T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2wwlsc0lh.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: m220439p48.fsf@batcave.bungi.com

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David Masterson <david@batcave.bungi.com> writes:

> 4. By using GPL'ed software, you have signed a license that should be
>    every bit as binding as the Microsoft (et.al.) copyright licenses
>    that you accept by opening their package -- license definition.

Wrong.  You have *not* signed such a licence "by using GPLed"
software, and consequently cannot be held to it, or sued for breach of
contract.  There is no such thing as "silent agreement" when using
software or opening a package.  What you can be sued for if you
disregard the "licence" is breach of copyright, as the copyright
holder has agreed to relax his rights for the sake of your using his
software only under certain constraints.

This is an important difference:
a) The penalties and procedures for breach of contract and breach of
copyright are somewhat different.
b) The only person allowed to sue for breach of copyright with
relation to some GPLed software is the copyright holder of some piece
of it.  Other than that, it is not enforceable.

> 5. If the GPL is a lawyers construct to represent the "Golden Rule"
>    and, yet, has flaws in it that allow subversion of the Rule, then
>    maybe it should be modified -- as done in GPL v2.

You are confusing things here.  The GPL is a user licence.  It neither
gives or takes any rights to his own software to the author, nor can
it in fact legally restrict the author's right to do what he wants
to do with his own software.  He can quite legally stop distributing
the source of it, although not the redistribution of existing GPLed
copies because he has already granted a usage licence including
copying.

The GPL is *not* some declaration of compellation of niceness by the
author.  Nor is it useful for the spread of free software to demand
from prospective authors to go in chain and fetters.  It gives some
guarantees of legal safety for the user, but none of of overall
availability (only of source availability if you got just binaries
from a redistributor).

In fact, some original software might be GPLed without making any
source available by the author, only binaries.  The most you could do
in that case is sue for misleading claims (unfair competition or
something like that).  Of course, he cannot do so if his work is a
derivative of some software for which he does not hold the copyright.

The GPL is a licence for the user, not the author.  It only enforces
something related to a vision of the "Golden Rule" on the user and
possible redistributor of the software, not the author.  It could not
do so even if it wanted to:  the author keeps the copyright to his
software and can do with it what he wants.

The alternative would be to require the author to waive his copyright
and assign it to some third party, such as the FSF, before he was
allowed to use the GPL for it.  The FSF is presumably neither willing
nor able to manage the copyright business of all authors of free
software all over the world.

Don't go whining about how the GPL does not strike you as useful
before you understand the implications of it and alternatives.

-- 
David Kastrup                                     Phone: +49-234-700-5570
Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de       Fax: +49-234-709-4209
Institut f�r Neuroinformatik, Universit�tsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany




  reply	other threads:[~1997-08-11  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 259+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-05-28  0:00 gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-05-29  0:00 ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-05-30  0:00   ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-07  0:00     ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
     [not found]       ` <m2vi3kpuay.fsf@devo.ridgenet.net>
1997-06-12  0:00         ` gnat-3.10 Stephen Leake
1997-06-12  0:00         ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-12  0:00           ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-13  0:00             ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-13  0:00               ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-16  0:00                 ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-16  0:00                   ` gnat-3.10 CHARLET Arnaud
1997-06-17  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-18  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Samuel Tardieu
1997-06-16  0:00                   ` gnat-3.10 Dale Pontius
1997-06-17  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-18  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-06-17  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-18  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Andrew Lynch
1997-06-18  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-18  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Dale Pontius
1997-06-19  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Arthur Schwarz
1997-06-16  0:00               ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-16  0:00                 ` Building gnat-3.10 from source (was: gnat-3.10) Larry Kilgallen
1997-06-17  0:00                   ` Ronald Cole
1997-06-17  0:00                 ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-20  0:00                   ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-22  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-23  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Corey Minyard
1997-07-01  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-07-01  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-23  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Larry Kilgallen
1997-06-27  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-28  0:00                           ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                           ` gnat-3.10 Larry Kilgallen
1997-06-28  0:00                           ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                             ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 Fergus Henderson
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-07-02  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 Philip Brashear
1997-07-02  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 James Rogers
1997-07-03  0:00                                     ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-08  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-10  0:00                                     ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-07-11  0:00                                       ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 David Kastrup
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-02  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Daniel R Risacher
1997-07-04  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 David Kastrup
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Joerg Rodemann
1997-06-23  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-06-23  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-24  0:00                         ` what DOES the GPL really say? Spam Hater
1997-06-25  0:00                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-25  0:00                             ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-25  0:00                               ` Paul D. Smith
1997-06-25  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 Dale Stanbrough
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 James Rogers
1997-07-02  0:00                                     ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` what DOES the GPL really say? Richard Kenner
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-26  0:00                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-26  0:00                                 ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                   ` GLADE and GPL (was: what DOES the GPL really say?) Roy T. Fielding
1997-06-26  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` David Weller
1997-06-27  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` David Weller
1997-07-01  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                                       ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-27  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-28  0:00                                         ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` David Weller
1997-07-03  0:00                                         ` Steve Peltz
1997-07-04  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-01  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-02  0:00                                         ` David Weller
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                                       ` Roy T. Fielding
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` David Kastrup
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                         ` <dewar.867554947@merv>
1997-06-30  0:00                                           ` Roy T. Fielding
     [not found]                                         ` <dewar.867556141@merv>
1997-06-30  0:00                                           ` Roy T. Fielding
1997-07-01  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` what DOES the GPL really say? Robert Dewar
1997-06-26  0:00                                 ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-26  0:00                                   ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-27  0:00                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` kdp0101
1997-06-30  0:00                                       ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                   ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-06-26  0:00                                   ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-06-26  0:00                                     ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` Kai Henningsen
1997-07-05  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` user
1997-06-29  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                             ` user
1997-06-29  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-27  0:00                                       ` Stephen Leake
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-28  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-30  0:00                                           ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-30  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                                       ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-01  0:00                                         ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-26  0:00                             ` David Kastrup
1997-06-27  0:00                             ` Ronald Cole
1997-06-28  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                                 ` Olivier Galibert
     [not found]                                   ` <dewar.867554739@merv>
1997-06-29  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                 ` Ronald Cole
1997-06-30  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` Richard Watts
1997-07-01  0:00                                   ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-03  0:00                                     ` Steve Peltz
1997-07-04  0:00                                       ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-04  0:00                                         ` Olivier Galibert
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Bill Gribble
1997-07-09  0:00                                             ` David Kastrup
1997-07-09  0:00                                               ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-09  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-09  0:00                                                 ` Richard Kenner
     [not found]                                         ` <5pmg6e$nai$1@Venus.mcs.net>
1997-07-05  0:00                                           ` user
1997-07-05  0:00                                             ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-07-05  0:00                                               ` Paul Eggert
1997-07-07  0:00                                                 ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-07-06  0:00                                               ` user
1997-07-06  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-06  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-08  0:00                                               ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-05  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                         ` Steve Peltz
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-14  0:00                                             ` Steve Peltz
1997-07-14  0:00                                               ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-14  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20  0:00                                               ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-21  0:00                                                 ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-21  0:00                                                 ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-21  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                   ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-22  0:00                                                     ` Isaac
1997-07-22  0:00                                                       ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-07-23  0:00                                                         ` Isaac
1997-07-23  0:00                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-29  0:00                                                             ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` David Kastrup
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-29  0:00                                                         ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-30  0:00                                                           ` Joe Buck
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` Isaac
1997-07-25  0:00                                                           ` B.Stephens
1997-07-29  0:00                                                           ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` David Kastrup
1997-07-27  0:00                                                     ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-29  0:00                                                       ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-23  0:00                                                 ` David Kastrup
1997-07-23  0:00                                                 ` Chris Morgan
1997-07-29  0:00                                                   ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-30  0:00                                                     ` Chris Morgan
1997-08-04  0:00                                                       ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-05  0:00                                                         ` David Kastrup
1997-08-09  0:00                                                           ` David Masterson
1997-08-11  0:00                                                             ` David Kastrup [this message]
     [not found]                                                         ` <dewar.870872644@merv>
     [not found]                                                           ` <dewar.870873584@merv>
1997-08-12  0:00                                                             ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-13  0:00                                                               ` David Kastrup
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                 ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-15  0:00                                                               ` Isaac
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                 ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-16  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                 ` Thomas Koenig
1997-08-17  0:00                                                                 ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                   ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                 ` Mike Stump
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                     ` Thomas Koenig
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                         ` <EFIyr0.Erq@kithrup.com>
     [not found]                                                                           ` <34032CE9.77E@link.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                               ` <5u11n0$emm@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                 ` Simon Wright
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                     ` Paul Lyon
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                   ` egcs (Re: what DOES the GPL really say?) Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                 ` what DOES the GPL really say? Ronald Cole
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                     ` Ronald Cole
     [not found]                                                                     ` <hjb-3008970231180001@chaos.dial.idiom.com>
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                       ` Ted Goldblatt
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                         ` Hwa-Jin Bae
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                           ` Ted Goldblatt
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                             ` Hwa-Jin Bae
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                               ` Mark Wooding
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                 ` Isaac
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                               ` Ted Goldblatt
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                         ` <33E974F3.1AAC@ix.netcom.com>
1997-08-12  0:00                                                           ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-12  0:00                                                             ` Chris Morgan
1997-08-16  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                               ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                 ` Richard Kenner
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                   ` Ronald Cole
     [not found]                                                                     ` <5tujkj$qr9$1@news.nyu.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                       ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                         ` Richard Kenner
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                           ` Toon Moene
     [not found]                                                                             ` <5ubkbp$e69$1@news.nyu.edu>
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                               ` Toon Moene
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                 ` Craig Burley
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                               ` Craig Burley
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                           ` Ronald Cole
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                             ` Richard Kenner
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                               ` Remy Card
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                 ` rosalia
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                 ` Richard Kenner
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                   ` egcs. Was: " David Kastrup
1997-08-13  0:00                                                           ` David Kastrup
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` Scott Michel
1997-07-01  0:00                                   ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-02  0:00                                     ` Rand Kant Hegel with Aristotle ? Wes Groleau
1997-07-07  0:00                                       ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-08  0:00                                         ` Michael F Brenner
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-02  0:00                                     ` what DOES the GPL really say? David Weller
1997-07-02  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-02  0:00                                       ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-02  0:00                                         ` Mark Atwood
1997-07-02  0:00                                           ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-07-06  0:00                                         ` Stefan Monnier
1997-06-27  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-27  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                             ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-17  0:00                 ` gnat-3.10 Pascal Obry
1997-06-16  0:00             ` gnat-3.10 Joerg Rodemann
1997-06-17  0:00               ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-14  0:00         ` gnat-3.10 Jerry van Dijk
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-09-01  0:00 what DOES the GPL really say? Richard Stallman
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