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From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Subject: egcs.  Was: what DOES the GPL really say?
Date: 1997/09/11
Date: 1997-09-11T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2wwko84wb.fsf_-_@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 5v4u1s$nn8$1@news.nyu.edu

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kenner@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Richard Kenner) writes:

> In article <5uqh3g$1to$1@bbj.freenix.fr> card@bbj.freenix.fr (Remy Card) writes:
> 
> >Hmmm, when I read the "Tired of waiting..." thread, I got the
> >impression that people working on the g++ part were quite frustrated
> >that a new release of gcc/g++ did not happen, because they had much a better
> >c++ compiler and they had to wait for the FSF gcc maintainers to say "Ok,
> >it's time to release a new version of gcc/g++", even if they got reports
> >for bugs that they had fixed one year ago...
> 
> That doesn't make much sense for two reasons:
> 
> (1) The startup of the EGCS project is far more likely to slow down
> the final testing of GCC 2.8.0 (and hence release) than speed it up
> since the people who would otherwise be working on that task are now
> splitting their efforts between that and EGCS.

A year seems a somewhat long time for "final testing", so I don't
think that final testing of gcc 2.8.0 has been a full-time occupation
for all of the involved parties.

> (2) The EGCS project is just starting up and the 2.8 cycle is coming
> to an end.  The goals of the EGCS project are to things *after* the
> 2.8 cycle, not of that cycle itself.

Mostly yes, because actually nobody can believe that 2.8.0 will be
long coming *now* (but most people believed this already a year ago).
What the EGCS project wants to avoid, probably, is that bug reports
and development focus on outdated work, like it has happened with
2.7-derived compilers, particularly with the g++ frontend.  2.7 is
more than 2 years old, and at least for the last year this has grown
into a major nuisance for C++ users, as the need for a more correct
compiler got more and more pressing for many people.

Personally, I can't actually share your opinion that your arguments
show that trying to have people improve and test the actual streak of
development instead of that from two years ago does not make much
sense.

> >Are you kidding?  Can you seriously say "a few months" when the
> >last release of GCC is 2 years old? :-)
> 
> Yes.  The point is that had EGCS been around two years ago, the
> work that we held up GCC 2.8 for would have been shunted off to it
> and we would have been at 2.10 by now.

So you think that EGCS actually is a good idea, as we would have more
features, and better-tested than we have now.

> 
> >I don't know anything about compilers, but I like how egcs is
> >developped and made available to testers on a regular basis.  If the egcs
> >developpers happen to have a version that is stable enough to be available
> >as a release, I will certainly use it and not use the FSF gcc anymore.
> 
> There's some confusion here.  Once a change has been shown stable
> enough within the EGCS framework, it gets put into the mainstream
> and EGCS goes on to test *other* unstable changes.

Let's see whether this works out.  I doubt it.  Quite a few changes
have been shown stable enough in the Cygnus development framework, yet
they still have not appeared in the "mainstream".


-- 
David Kastrup                                     Phone: +49-234-700-5570
Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de       Fax: +49-234-709-4209
Institut f�r Neuroinformatik, Universit�tsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany




  reply	other threads:[~1997-09-11  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 258+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-05-28  0:00 gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-05-29  0:00 ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-05-30  0:00   ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-07  0:00     ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
     [not found]       ` <m2vi3kpuay.fsf@devo.ridgenet.net>
1997-06-12  0:00         ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-12  0:00           ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-13  0:00             ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-13  0:00               ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-16  0:00                 ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-16  0:00                   ` gnat-3.10 Dale Pontius
1997-06-17  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-18  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Dale Pontius
1997-06-18  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Andrew Lynch
1997-06-18  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-17  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-18  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-06-19  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Arthur Schwarz
1997-06-16  0:00                   ` gnat-3.10 CHARLET Arnaud
1997-06-17  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-18  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Samuel Tardieu
1997-06-16  0:00               ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-16  0:00                 ` Building gnat-3.10 from source (was: gnat-3.10) Larry Kilgallen
1997-06-17  0:00                   ` Ronald Cole
1997-06-17  0:00                 ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-20  0:00                   ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-22  0:00                     ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-23  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-24  0:00                         ` what DOES the GPL really say? Spam Hater
1997-06-25  0:00                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-25  0:00                             ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-25  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 Dale Stanbrough
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 James Rogers
1997-07-02  0:00                                     ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-25  0:00                               ` what DOES the GPL really say? Paul D. Smith
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-26  0:00                                 ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-26  0:00                                   ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-27  0:00                                       ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` kdp0101
1997-06-30  0:00                                       ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                   ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-06-26  0:00                                   ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-06-26  0:00                                     ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` Kai Henningsen
1997-07-05  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` user
1997-06-29  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                             ` user
1997-06-29  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-27  0:00                                       ` Stephen Leake
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-28  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-30  0:00                                           ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-30  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                                       ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-01  0:00                                         ` Samuel Mize
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-26  0:00                                 ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-26  0:00                                   ` GLADE and GPL (was: what DOES the GPL really say?) Roy T. Fielding
1997-06-26  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` David Weller
1997-06-27  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` David Weller
1997-07-01  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                                       ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-27  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-28  0:00                                         ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` David Weller
1997-07-03  0:00                                         ` Steve Peltz
1997-07-04  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-01  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-02  0:00                                         ` David Weller
1997-06-27  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                                       ` Roy T. Fielding
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` David Kastrup
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                         ` Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                         ` <dewar.867556141@merv>
1997-06-30  0:00                                           ` Roy T. Fielding
1997-07-01  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                         ` <dewar.867554947@merv>
1997-06-30  0:00                                           ` Roy T. Fielding
1997-06-26  0:00                                 ` what DOES the GPL really say? Samuel Mize
1997-06-26  0:00                               ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-26  0:00                             ` David Kastrup
1997-06-27  0:00                             ` Ronald Cole
1997-06-28  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                                 ` Olivier Galibert
     [not found]                                   ` <dewar.867554739@merv>
1997-06-29  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-30  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                                 ` Ronald Cole
1997-06-30  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` Richard Watts
1997-07-01  0:00                                   ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-03  0:00                                     ` Steve Peltz
1997-07-04  0:00                                       ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-04  0:00                                         ` Olivier Galibert
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                             ` Bill Gribble
1997-07-09  0:00                                             ` David Kastrup
1997-07-09  0:00                                               ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-09  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-09  0:00                                                 ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                         ` Steve Peltz
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-14  0:00                                             ` Steve Peltz
1997-07-14  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-14  0:00                                               ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-20  0:00                                               ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-21  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-21  0:00                                                   ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-22  0:00                                                     ` Isaac
1997-07-22  0:00                                                       ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-07-23  0:00                                                         ` Isaac
1997-07-23  0:00                                                           ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-29  0:00                                                             ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-29  0:00                                                         ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-30  0:00                                                           ` Joe Buck
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` David Kastrup
1997-07-24  0:00                                                         ` Isaac
1997-07-25  0:00                                                           ` B.Stephens
1997-07-29  0:00                                                           ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-23  0:00                                                       ` David Kastrup
1997-07-27  0:00                                                     ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-29  0:00                                                       ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-21  0:00                                                 ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-21  0:00                                                 ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-23  0:00                                                 ` Chris Morgan
1997-07-29  0:00                                                   ` Ronald Cole
1997-07-30  0:00                                                     ` Chris Morgan
1997-08-04  0:00                                                       ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-05  0:00                                                         ` David Kastrup
1997-08-09  0:00                                                           ` David Masterson
1997-08-11  0:00                                                             ` David Kastrup
     [not found]                                                         ` <33E974F3.1AAC@ix.netcom.com>
1997-08-12  0:00                                                           ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-12  0:00                                                             ` Chris Morgan
1997-08-16  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                                               ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                 ` Richard Kenner
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                   ` Ronald Cole
     [not found]                                                                     ` <5tujkj$qr9$1@news.nyu.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00                                                                       ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                         ` Richard Kenner
1997-08-30  0:00                                                                           ` Toon Moene
     [not found]                                                                             ` <5ubkbp$e69$1@news.nyu.edu>
1997-08-31  0:00                                                                               ` Toon Moene
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                                 ` Craig Burley
1997-09-01  0:00                                                                               ` Craig Burley
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                           ` Ronald Cole
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                             ` Richard Kenner
1997-09-06  0:00                                                                               ` Remy Card
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                                 ` rosalia
1997-09-10  0:00                                                                                 ` Richard Kenner
1997-09-11  0:00                                                                                   ` David Kastrup [this message]
1997-08-13  0:00                                                           ` David Kastrup
     [not found]                                                         ` <dewar.870872644@merv>
     [not found]                                                           ` <dewar.870873584@merv>
1997-08-12  0:00                                                             ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-13  0:00                                                               ` David Kastrup
1997-08-13  0:00                                                                 ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-15  0:00                                                               ` Isaac
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                 ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-16  0:00                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-16  0:00                                                                 ` Thomas Koenig
1997-08-17  0:00                                                                 ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-08-19  0:00                                                                   ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                 ` Ronald Cole
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-25  0:00                                                                     ` Ronald Cole
     [not found]                                                                     ` <hjb-3008970231180001@chaos.dial.idiom.com>
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                       ` Ted Goldblatt
1997-09-02  0:00                                                                         ` Hwa-Jin Bae
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                           ` Ted Goldblatt
1997-09-03  0:00                                                                             ` Hwa-Jin Bae
1997-09-07  0:00                                                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                               ` Ted Goldblatt
1997-09-08  0:00                                                                               ` Mark Wooding
1997-09-09  0:00                                                                                 ` Isaac
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                 ` Mike Stump
1997-08-20  0:00                                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                     ` Paul Lyon
1997-08-22  0:00                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                     ` Thomas Koenig
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                       ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                         ` <EFIyr0.Erq@kithrup.com>
     [not found]                                                                           ` <34032CE9.77E@link.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                                                               ` <5u11n0$emm@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-27  0:00                                                                                 ` Simon Wright
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                   ` egcs (Re: what DOES the GPL really say?) Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-21  0:00                                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
1997-07-23  0:00                                                 ` what DOES the GPL really say? David Kastrup
     [not found]                                         ` <5pmg6e$nai$1@Venus.mcs.net>
1997-07-05  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-05  0:00                                           ` user
1997-07-05  0:00                                             ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-07-05  0:00                                               ` Paul Eggert
1997-07-07  0:00                                                 ` Leslie Mikesell
1997-07-06  0:00                                               ` user
1997-07-06  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-06  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-08  0:00                                               ` Richard Kenner
1997-07-08  0:00                                           ` Richard Kenner
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` Scott Michel
1997-07-01  0:00                                   ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-02  0:00                                     ` David Weller
1997-07-02  0:00                                       ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-02  0:00                                         ` Mark Atwood
1997-07-02  0:00                                           ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-07-06  0:00                                         ` Stefan Monnier
1997-07-02  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-02  0:00                                     ` Rand Kant Hegel with Aristotle ? Wes Groleau
1997-07-07  0:00                                       ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-07-08  0:00                                         ` Michael F Brenner
1997-07-09  0:00                                           ` Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG
1997-06-27  0:00                           ` what DOES the GPL really say? Robert Dewar
1997-06-30  0:00                             ` Wes Groleau
1997-06-27  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-23  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-06-23  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Larry Kilgallen
1997-06-27  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-28  0:00                           ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-28  0:00                           ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-06-29  0:00                             ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 Fergus Henderson
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-07-02  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 Philip Brashear
1997-07-02  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 James Rogers
1997-07-03  0:00                                     ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-08  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-10  0:00                                     ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-07-11  0:00                                       ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-02  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Daniel R Risacher
1997-07-04  0:00                                   ` gnat-3.10 David Kastrup
1997-07-03  0:00                                 ` gnat-3.10 Joerg Rodemann
1997-06-30  0:00                               ` gnat-3.10 David Kastrup
1997-06-28  0:00                           ` gnat-3.10 Larry Kilgallen
1997-06-23  0:00                       ` gnat-3.10 Corey Minyard
1997-07-01  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Robert Dewar
1997-07-01  0:00                         ` gnat-3.10 Richard Kenner
1997-06-17  0:00                 ` gnat-3.10 Pascal Obry
1997-06-16  0:00             ` gnat-3.10 Joerg Rodemann
1997-06-17  0:00               ` gnat-3.10 Ronald Cole
1997-06-12  0:00         ` gnat-3.10 Stephen Leake
1997-06-14  0:00         ` gnat-3.10 Jerry van Dijk
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