From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Structured exception information
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:16:26 +0100
Date: 2007-01-18T11:16:26+01:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <lspjcrq05nn3.hgehuzg9ju08$.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: SJudnT5O75BPLzPYnZ2dnUVZ_syunZ2d@megapath.net
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:36:41 -0600, Randy Brukardt wrote:
> "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> wrote in message
> news:1lpy2h06scx34.1i2k4dlbg0nfy.dlg@40tude.net...
>>
>> How could you be sure that it would write log and not destroy your address
>> database? A vivid example is MS-Word which corrupts the document being
>> edited upon crash.
>
> Sure? You can never be completely sure; you have to mitigate risks. But in
> my case, I trust my compiler not to destroy anything before generating
> checks (given that I wrote most of the compiler, I have a lot of knowledge
> of what it will and will not do). I also build components to be resilient to
> failure: most everything is controlled, and will reset itself to a correct
> state if the objects are prematurely finalized. The main remaining risk is
> using dangling pointers (and I try to avoid pointers as much as possible,
> and use a special storage pool to try to detect that when I cannot avoid
> it). An implementation that corrupted something on a failure is just not
> acceptable.
Consider a failure defined as "corrupting something." Now what an
implementation should do if it notices that it just has corrupted something
(=failed)? (:-))
> But even with the logging, you still have to be able to deal with crashes.
> For instance, these programs run on Windows; and it's been known to die
> occassionally.
Right. This is exactly the point. When MS-Word crashes it is not a crash of
Windows. Thus the program Windows can continue, the file system can, HDD
can, the powerplant supplying the computer can etc, but MS-Word cannot. In
other words, for Windows it is a normal state when MS-Word crashes... (:-))
>> BTW, in my view, writing log is still a valid program
>> state, it is a defined behavior. As long as you can continue, no matter
>> how, it is not yet a bug within the scope where you continue.
>
> Well, then there are no bugs in my mail and web servers. I'm happy to hear
> that. ;-)
An undesired behavior is still one... Otherwise we would considered
anything we don't like as bugs.
> That doesn't match my definition of bug. There's not much to talk about if
> we don't agree on the meaning of basic terms.
Yes. I think one should clearly distinguish:
1. states
2. undesired (exceptional) states
3. non-states (bugs)
--
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-01-18 10:16 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 181+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-01-15 13:44 Structured exception information Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-15 17:17 ` claude.simon
2007-01-16 9:04 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-16 22:39 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-15 17:28 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-15 18:29 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-15 19:44 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-15 20:06 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-15 21:56 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-15 22:32 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-16 18:36 ` Ray Blaak
2007-01-16 19:18 ` C# versus Ada (was: Structured exception information) Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-16 23:29 ` C# versus Ada Markus E Leypold
2007-01-18 10:22 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-17 18:14 ` C# versus Ada (was: Structured exception information) Ray Blaak
2007-01-16 23:27 ` Structured exception information Markus E Leypold
2007-01-17 7:28 ` Martin Krischik
2007-01-16 22:36 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-17 16:12 ` Bob Spooner
2007-01-17 23:42 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-16 9:11 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-16 10:45 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-16 13:26 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-16 14:44 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-16 15:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-16 17:50 ` Jeffrey Carter
2007-01-16 18:31 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-16 22:52 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-17 8:58 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-17 18:38 ` Jeffrey Carter
2007-01-17 23:18 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-17 23:46 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-18 6:34 ` Jeffrey Carter
2007-01-19 7:34 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-19 13:52 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-19 18:57 ` Jeffrey Carter
2007-01-19 19:57 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-20 20:59 ` Jeffrey Carter
2007-01-18 9:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-18 18:28 ` Jeffrey Carter
2007-01-17 23:36 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-18 10:16 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2007-01-15 22:19 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-16 13:12 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-15 22:42 ` Adam Beneschan
2007-01-15 23:22 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-16 6:03 ` tmoran
2007-01-16 13:30 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-16 14:33 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-16 14:45 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-16 17:54 ` Jeffrey Carter
2007-01-16 22:55 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-17 12:10 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-17 14:05 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-19 9:47 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-19 11:03 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-20 15:04 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-21 10:40 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-23 7:28 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-23 14:21 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-25 2:39 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-19 13:36 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-20 15:33 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-20 16:33 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-21 22:42 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-21 23:45 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-22 9:14 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-23 7:33 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-23 15:07 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-23 15:54 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-23 17:10 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-23 23:59 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-22 9:28 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-23 9:46 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-23 14:18 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-25 2:32 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-25 8:53 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-26 9:35 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-26 11:16 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 13:46 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-27 18:17 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-28 12:38 ` Simon Wright
2007-01-28 12:39 ` Simon Wright
2007-01-28 13:18 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-28 15:44 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-28 21:48 ` Ray Blaak
2007-01-28 18:50 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-30 2:15 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-31 18:58 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-01 12:20 ` Stephen Leake
2007-02-01 14:17 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-25 21:52 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-24 0:10 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-24 14:17 ` Wasteful internationalization (Was: Structured exception information) Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-24 14:49 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-24 23:48 ` Wasteful internationalization Björn Persson
2007-01-25 9:45 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 21:03 ` Wasteful internationalization (Was: Structured exception information) Randy Brukardt
2007-01-25 11:17 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-25 21:37 ` Wasteful internationalization Björn Persson
2007-01-25 21:57 ` Wasteful internationalization (Was: Structured exception information) Randy Brukardt
2007-01-26 9:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-26 12:12 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-27 4:09 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-27 17:15 ` Wasteful internationalization Stephen Leake
2007-01-27 20:44 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28 0:09 ` Björn Persson
2007-01-28 1:08 ` Björn Persson
2007-01-28 15:21 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 1:23 ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-01-29 19:02 ` Björn Persson
2007-01-29 20:19 ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-02-01 6:23 ` Simon Wright
2007-02-03 0:48 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-03 1:04 ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-03 11:52 ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-02-03 2:36 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 2:37 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 19:59 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-03 20:16 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 19:26 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-04 4:51 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-02-05 19:27 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-06 1:32 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-06 1:54 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 1:55 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-07 2:20 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-12 1:33 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-12 8:16 ` Franz Kruse
2007-02-12 9:20 ` Not at all wasteful internationalization Martin Krischik
2007-02-12 11:08 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-12 13:02 ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-07 20:39 ` Wasteful internationalization Randy Brukardt
2007-02-08 13:33 ` Stephen Leake
2007-02-12 2:42 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-06 11:01 ` Peter Hermann
2007-02-06 19:02 ` OT: Flash (was: Re: Wasteful internationalization) Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-06 19:40 ` OT: Flash Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 11:51 ` Wasteful internationalization Larry Kilgallen
2007-01-29 18:54 ` Björn Persson
2007-01-29 19:03 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-30 17:46 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-30 19:37 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-30 20:43 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-30 20:50 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-30 21:54 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31 11:26 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-31 15:17 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 0:49 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-03 16:05 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-02-03 0:48 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-01 12:08 ` Stephen Leake
2007-02-03 0:49 ` Björn Persson
2007-02-03 9:46 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 18:48 ` Stephen Leake
2007-02-03 20:27 ` Björn Persson
2007-01-30 2:20 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-30 10:01 ` Wasteful internationalization (Was: Structured exception information) Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-19 15:45 ` Structured exception information Robert A Duff
2007-01-20 16:08 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-20 21:59 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-19 18:14 ` Ray Blaak
2007-01-19 20:07 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-20 16:16 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-20 21:20 ` Ray Blaak
2007-01-21 22:34 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-20 22:07 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-21 10:45 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-21 23:51 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-22 14:39 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-22 19:02 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-23 14:23 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-29 1:30 ` Brian May
2007-01-16 13:30 ` Structured exception information (task, ANEX E) Martin Krischik
2007-01-16 23:07 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-19 16:01 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-22 7:17 ` Martin Krischik
2007-01-22 19:40 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-16 15:48 ` Structured exception information Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-16 18:07 ` Jeffrey Carter
2007-01-17 6:38 ` Duncan Sands
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