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From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Ada.Command_Line and wildcards
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:14:58 +0100
Date: 2007-03-12T15:14:58+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <l7bwy1yw2x6w.1f3ysyc3dpe3x$.dlg@40tude.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1173706320.835858.227370@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com

On 12 Mar 2007 06:32:00 -0700, Hyman Rosen wrote:

> On Mar 11, 3:59 am, "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mail...@dmitry-kazakov.de>
> wrote:
>> GUI
> 
> Really? But one of the difficult situations people are describing here
> occurs when a file pattern expands into too many files to fit within
> the limits of the command line. Can you reasonably expect that the
> typical GUI environment will be able to comfortably handle such a
> situation?

Sure, because they were designed to prevent such situations to happen.

The very need in patterns indicates the low level of the interface. If an
action involves a massive number of files, then that does not imply that
all these files (or better to say bits) need to be specified explicitly. If
they need, then the interface is *bad*. To book a ticket you press the
button "submit order." Surely you don't specify the names of the
corresponding files... 

The true catastrophe happens when something unexpected occurs. But at this
level of complexity there is nothing you could do anyway: Denver airport,
or a file system chewed by the virus...

> My experience is that it would bog down into incredibly
> slow performance if given a directory with thousands of files in it.

That is not really my argument against command languages. It is rather
about the abstraction level of. The real arguments are IMO:

1. Half-duplex nature of communication
2. Very limited communication speed (reading and typing)
3. Inefficient use of human senses
4. The system state is invisible
5. Language training is required
6. Error prone
7. Integration and extensibility is a problem

>> (what about driving cars using an interactive command language?
> 
> Driving involves continuous operation with extensive feedback, which
> is quite different from a shell language, designed to perform one
> operation at a time. But even when it comes to driving, consider what
> an ordinary driver does when faced with parking a car in the tight
> confines of a parking garage. Using the normal mechanisms, it's quite
> easy to misalign the car, hit other cars, bash your mirrors, and so
> forth. Using a command language to precisely guide the car might be
> just the ticket!

Yes, at some level there always exists the perfect command language, with
the only command "do that damned thing!" Unfortunately, it is too ambiguous
for either people or computers to become a reality.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de



  reply	other threads:[~2007-03-12 14:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 158+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-02-21 20:43 Ada.Command_Line and wildcards Gautier
2007-02-21 20:59 ` (see below)
2007-02-22  1:13   ` Marc A. Criley
2007-02-22  2:08   ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-22  5:59     ` (see below)
2007-02-22  8:16   ` gautier_niouzes
2007-02-22 10:25     ` Simon Wright
2007-02-22 11:02     ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-02-24  6:34       ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-24 11:46         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-24 14:54           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-24 16:45             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-24 20:08               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-02-24 20:45                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-25  0:39                   ` Björn Persson
2007-02-25 16:29                   ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-24 20:26               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-25  7:46               ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-25 13:19                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-05  1:07             ` Brian May
2007-03-05  1:39               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-06  3:48                 ` Brian May
2007-03-05 12:16               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-05 13:20                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-06 12:56                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-06 15:07                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-07 22:06                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-08  5:07                         ` Simon Wright
2007-03-08  9:19                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-08  9:28                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-08  9:16                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-09 13:33                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-09 17:11                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-09 18:22                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-09 19:02                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-09 20:04                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-10 10:40                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-11  0:15                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-03-11  7:59                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-11 14:55                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-12 13:32                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2007-03-12 14:14                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov [this message]
2007-03-12 15:08                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-16  8:06                                           ` Brian May
2007-03-16 12:53                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-10  2:12                               ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-10 10:52                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-10 15:48                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-10 18:11                               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-03-10 18:42                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-12 14:25                                   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-03-12 15:17                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-09 13:41                       ` Robert Deininger
2007-03-09 17:15                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-09 18:58                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-03-10 10:27                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-06 15:08                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-03-07 19:21                     ` Hyman Rosen
2007-03-07 20:27                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-07 21:12                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-06  3:07                 ` Brian May
2007-02-24 18:28           ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-24 13:04         ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-02-24 16:16           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-25 14:18             ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-03-05  1:03         ` Brian May
2007-03-05 10:34           ` Martin Krischik
2007-03-05 20:46             ` Simon Wright
2007-02-22 11:19     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-22 13:49       ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-22 14:25         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-22 15:12           ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-02-22 15:15           ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-02-22 15:54             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-22 18:26               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-22 19:34                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-22 20:38                   ` Simon Wright
2007-02-23  8:43                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-25 16:35                 ` wildcards with unix shells Martin Krischik
2007-02-22 16:20             ` Ada.Command_Line and wildcards Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-22 18:34               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-22 19:30                 ` Niklas Holsti
2007-02-23  1:01                 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-23  4:44                   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-23  5:06                   ` Anders Wirzenius
2007-02-24 16:37                     ` Simon Wright
2007-02-25 16:42                       ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-26 20:51                         ` Simon Wright
2007-02-27  7:11                           ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-27 21:32                             ` Björn Persson
2007-02-27 21:56                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-27 22:53                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-28 13:55                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-28 14:25                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-26 11:59                       ` Anders Wirzenius
2007-02-26 14:46                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-02-23  8:43                   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-02-23 11:34                     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-24 13:40                       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-02-25 16:57                     ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-26 21:27                       ` Björn Persson
2007-02-27  7:18                         ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-23  8:49                 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-23  9:29                   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-02-22 17:07       ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-22 18:40         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-23 10:47         ` Rob Norris
2007-02-23 13:28         ` brian.b.mcguinness
2007-02-23 13:56           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-23 17:10           ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-22 20:12       ` Gautier
2007-02-23  1:15       ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-23  9:25         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-02-24  1:18           ` typed pipes (was: Ada.Command_Line and wildcards) Björn Persson
2007-02-24  8:16             ` typed pipes Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-24 13:37             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-02-24 16:33               ` Björn Persson
2007-02-24 20:17                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-02-25  1:11                   ` Björn Persson
2007-02-25  7:03                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2007-02-23 14:45         ` Ada.Command_Line and wildcards Larry Kilgallen
2007-02-24 19:24           ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-25  6:29             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-25 12:21               ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-25 16:22                 ` Pascal Obry
2007-02-25 16:44                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-26  5:03                     ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-26  8:44                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-26 17:11                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-26 17:34                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-27 16:13                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-27 16:19                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-27 16:39                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-27 17:56                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-27 20:29                               ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-26 20:30                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-27  0:34                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-27 14:52                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-27 20:43                           ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-27 20:56                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-25 17:50                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-23 16:58         ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-23 19:12           ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-23 19:26             ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-25 17:05               ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-24  1:19           ` Björn Persson
2007-02-24  3:46             ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-24 11:42               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-25 17:02             ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-23 19:04         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-23 19:30           ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-23 19:46             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-23 20:07             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-24  1:18             ` Björn Persson
2007-02-24 19:22           ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-24 20:26             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-25  7:32             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-21 21:43 ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
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