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From: "Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" <warren@ve3wwg.tk>
Subject: Re: Standard Ada Preprocessor
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:29:41 -0500
Date: 2004-01-30T12:29:41-05:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <kvwSb.43799$mf4.1509847@news20.bellglobal.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <bv77s3$p8k$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de>

Georg Bauhaus wrote:

> Warren W. Gay VE3WWG <warren@ve3wwg.tk> wrote:
> : 
> : But this gets back to maintaining many mostly parallel
> : pieces of code.
> 
> Well, yes. It is very centralised though.
> The ideal scenario for me would be a declaration (using
> clickable check boxes or editing text) that
> effectively creates a program view. This means, I specify
> what I want at a high level and the computer compiles this
> into a corresponding source text view.

True, but there are other factors to consider in
development. Mind you this is a "developer convenience"
issue, but once you compile and/or debug, and you
realize that line 905 of xyz.adb needs to be changed,
where must the real editing be done? Probably not the
file that the compiler used, because it was generated
by some other tool. Often what happens is the xyz.adb
gets edited, and the change is lost.

Tracing back to the where the change really has to go
is inconvenient, if not extremely so. If you're trying
to sort out a problem with open sourced project(s), then
you have to sort out how the creator/maintainer set things
up for you (each project will be different). Again, I
find this annoying at best.

> When I see
> 
> if <this>
> context_clause_A
> fi
> source
> source
> if <this>
> variant_A
> else
> variant_B
> fi
> source
> source
> if <this>
> addition_A
> fi
> source
> 
> this looks like assembly language to me, with all its flexibility.

Yes, this is ugly, but not always _this_ ugly. Furthermore,
if this ugliness were confined only to thin bindings, I
could live with that. No Ada programmer wants to see this
throughout his project.

> But why do we build higher level text structures and compilers?

I don't understand your point here.

> It is interesting that programmers and in particular those
> with an engineering attitude have not built machinery to solve
> the problem in a high level systematic manner. Why?
> 
> There is an opportunity to sell something, or selling support,
> or starting a community effort...
> 
> -- Georg

I think the real reason is that people are holding out for
the "ivory tower" (aka "elegant") solution. There is nothing
wrong with this in principle, but I think it is fair to say
that after 12-20 years, if no solution has emerged, then the
standard has been set too high.

-- 
Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
http://ve3wwg.tk




  reply	other threads:[~2004-01-30 17:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 294+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-01-17 11:15 why ada is so unpopular ? Szymon Guz
2004-01-17 13:53 ` Martin Dowie
2004-01-17 14:27 ` Dmytry Lavrov
2004-01-17 21:02   ` Szymon Guz
2004-01-17 22:36     ` Adrian Knoth
2004-01-18  9:21       ` Szymon Guz
2004-01-18 12:18         ` Luke A. Guest
2004-01-18 13:09           ` Ronald Dauster
2004-01-18 12:59         ` Ronald Dauster
2004-01-18 13:25           ` Stephane Richard
2004-01-18 14:17           ` Szymon Guz
2004-01-18 14:42             ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-18 15:23               ` Szymon Guz
2004-01-18 17:53                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-18 16:34               ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-19 12:59                 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-19 13:06                   ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-19 13:28                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-19 13:37                       ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-20 12:38                         ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-20 17:31                           ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-20 18:50                             ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-26  4:00                               ` Peter Richtmyer
2004-01-26  5:01                                 ` tmoran
2004-01-26 12:01                                 ` Marin David Condic
2004-02-01 15:09                               ` Mark
2004-02-01 19:10                                 ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-02-02 16:48                                   ` Martin Krischik
2004-02-02 18:22                                     ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-01-21 12:39                             ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Marin David Condic
2004-01-21 13:12                               ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-22  0:05                               ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-22  5:59                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-22 12:58                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 17:25                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 12:24                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 13:46                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-01-23 17:16                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 17:52                                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-23 21:57                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-24  0:52                                                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-26 17:19                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 12:24                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-27 19:03                                                       ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-24  1:34                                                 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 17:27                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 12:30                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24  8:20                                                 ` Pascal Obry
2004-01-26 17:29                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 17:56                                             ` Larry Hazel
2004-01-24  1:36                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 22:14                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-23 22:42                                               ` tmoran
2004-01-26 17:50                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-26 18:54                                                 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-26 21:53                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  0:00                                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 17:30                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 20:55                                                         ` Robert A Duff
2004-01-27 22:03                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-28 12:28                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-28 20:55                                                             ` Simon Wright
2004-01-29 12:40                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-29 18:08                                                                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-30 12:30                                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-29 20:45                                                                 ` Simon Wright
2004-01-29 23:12                                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-30 13:09                                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 18:06                                                                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-31  8:11                                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 12:36                                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 16:52                                                             ` Pascal Obry
2004-01-31  8:25                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-27 21:04                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-28 12:42                                                           ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-27 12:48                                                 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Marin David Condic
2004-01-26  9:34                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-01-26 19:23                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-23  2:47                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-23 12:38                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24  5:23                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 12:28                                           ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 15:32                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 15:43                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-25  4:24                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-25 16:24                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-29 11:17                                                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-01-29 12:52                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 18:03                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-26 19:14                                             ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-26 22:04                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  1:00                                                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-27  8:35                                                   ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-27 11:09                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-27 15:22                                                       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-27 15:54                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 18:00                                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 19:19                                                           ` David Starner
2004-01-27 20:08                                                             ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-01-27 20:19                                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-27 20:58                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 22:13                                                             ` Simon Wright
2004-01-27 23:04                                                               ` David Starner
2004-01-28  1:41                                                                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-28  2:26                                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-28  2:50                                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-28  3:21                                                                   ` Jeff C,
2004-01-28  3:57                                                                   ` David Starner
2004-01-29  3:03                                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-29  7:20                                                                       ` David Starner
2004-01-29 11:14                                                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-29 18:56                                                                           ` David Starner
2004-01-29 19:41                                                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-29 12:57                                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-29 13:51                                                                         ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-30  2:46                                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-28 20:34                                                                   ` Michael Bode
2004-01-29  3:06                                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-28 12:50                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-27 20:44                                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 22:15                                                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-29 17:31                                                             ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (conclusions) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-29 19:44                                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-30 13:25                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 13:29                                                                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2004-01-30 13:53                                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-30 14:14                                                                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2004-01-27 19:11                                                         ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-27 21:48                                                         ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-28 16:26                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-29  2:51                                                             ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-29 11:19                                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-29 22:02                                                                 ` Nature of XML (was: Re: Standard Ada Preprocessor) Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-30  8:53                                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-30 17:35                                                                     ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-30 19:13                                                                       ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-31 16:04                                                                         ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-31 16:45                                                                           ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-30 18:49                                                                   ` Nature of XML Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-30 19:16                                                                     ` Marius Amado Alves
2004-01-30 22:59                                                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-31  1:26                                                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-31 13:08                                                                           ` Nature of XML (ramblings) Marius Amado Alves
2004-01-31 18:14                                                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-02-03  1:35                                                                           ` Nature of XML Robert C. Leif
2004-02-03 14:23                                                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-27 17:50                                                     ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 20:42                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 21:41                                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28  9:10                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-01-29 17:39                                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 23:21                                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-29 17:46                                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30  3:20                                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-28 12:27                                                       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-29 17:53                                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 17:33                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27 19:07                                                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-27 21:42                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  2:35                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27 21:47                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28  1:19                                                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-28 12:30                                                       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-28 23:35                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-29 10:16                                                       ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-29 17:58                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-29 23:19                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-27  3:54                                                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-27 21:53                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28  1:27                                                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-29 18:02                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28 20:35                                                     ` Pascal Obry
2004-01-29  0:53                                                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-28 23:41                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-29 18:04                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30  2:33                                                       ` Chad R. Meiners
2004-01-30 18:00                                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 22:52                                                           ` Blinking text Chad R. Meiners
2004-02-06 17:14                                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  7:41                                                 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Pascal Obry
2004-01-27 21:53                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  0:06                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 21:55                                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28  1:34                                                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-30 17:19                                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 19:06                                                       ` Frank J. Lhota
2004-02-10 11:18                                                         ` stephen.freeman9
2004-02-10 17:45                                                           ` Language Design (was Standard Ada Preprocessor) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  0:17                                               ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-26 23:44                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-27 22:04                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-28  2:47                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-30 17:29                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG [this message]
2004-01-30 19:06                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-31  8:42                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-02-02 17:28                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  0:15                                             ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 22:05                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-24  8:17                                         ` Pascal Obry
2004-01-24 12:44                                           ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 15:39                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 16:06                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 11:28                                             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2004-01-26 12:07                                               ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 16:38                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2004-01-23 17:54                                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-23 17:24                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 22:30                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-26 22:11                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  0:28                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-27 22:13                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-27  1:02                                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2004-01-22 14:13                                   ` Robert A Duff
2004-01-22 17:27                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 12:54                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 17:26                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-23 12:52                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24  5:52                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 12:56                                         ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 15:53                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-30 17:39                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-31  1:58                                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-02-02 17:55                                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-02-04 18:36                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-02-06 17:27                                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-02-07 13:18                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-02-09 17:37                                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-02-10 14:59                                                       ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-02-10 17:57                                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-02-10 21:49                                                           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2004-02-11  8:34                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2004-02-13 17:27                                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-30 17:34                                           ` Standard Ada Preprocessor (Was: why ada is so unpopular ?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-22 12:47                                 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 13:24                                   ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-01-22 18:20                                     ` Robert A Duff
2004-01-23  9:18                                       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-01-23 12:59                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-23 14:21                                       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2004-01-24  6:02                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 13:09                                         ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 19:32                                           ` tmoran
2004-01-24 20:34                                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 17:29                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-22 13:19                                 ` Standard Ada Preprocessor Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-22 13:49                                   ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 15:03                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-22 17:33                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-22 19:02                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2004-01-23 17:35                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2004-01-24  1:50                                             ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24  5:33                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-24 13:28                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 15:58                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 16:11                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-24 19:32                                                   ` tmoran
2004-01-24 20:44                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-25  5:02                                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-25 16:38                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-26 16:03                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-24 23:39                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-25 13:47                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2004-01-26 19:19                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2004-01-24  6:08                                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-23 13:11                                       ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 14:12                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
     [not found]                           ` <ldlq00hmnm7ofaqem3kkrt7qhf6o7kjfmj@4ax.com>
2004-01-21 12:20                             ` why ada is so unpopular ? Marin David Condic
2004-01-19 13:09                   ` Jeff C,
2004-01-19 23:03                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-20  1:10                       ` cl1
2004-01-20  5:34                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-20  7:37                           ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-20 16:41                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2004-01-20 23:59                             ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-21 10:29                               ` Preben Randhol
2004-01-17 23:01     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-18  0:30       ` Hyman Rosen
2004-01-18  2:06         ` cl1
2004-01-18  3:12           ` Hyman Rosen
2004-01-18  3:28             ` cl1
2004-01-18 14:34         ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-19 23:46     ` chris
2004-01-18 18:41 ` Jano
2004-01-21  2:01 ` Luke A. Guest
2004-01-21 14:23   ` Hyman Rosen
2004-01-21 14:31   ` Ludovic Brenta
2004-01-21 15:15     ` Hyman Rosen
2004-01-21 18:40       ` Robert A Duff
2004-01-21 18:31   ` chris
2004-01-22 13:11     ` Marin David Condic
2004-01-22 23:33       ` Stephen Leake
2004-01-23 13:25         ` Marin David Condic
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-01-26 13:30 Standard Ada Preprocessor Lionel.DRAGHI
2004-01-26 16:10 ` Robert I. Eachus
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