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From: "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: Use of declare blocks
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:35:39 -0500
Date: 2007-03-22T21:35:39-05:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <etveau$g29$1@jacob-sparre.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: bByMh.11141$P47.10468@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net

<adaworks@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:bByMh.11141$P47.10468@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
...
> When used by someone such as Randy, a programmer who
> uses every construct with care and intelligence, the declare
> block is not a primay design structure but a way of bringing
> subtle refinement to an already good design.

Richard, thanks for the vote of confidence. But I have to admit that the
above gave me a good laugh. My code tends to look just like the things you
describe you don't like (especially in the Janus/Ada compiler), especially
in regards to long subprograms. Part of that comes from the nature of
compiling: it's impossible to usefully shorten case statements with dozens
of branches. And I'm sure another part comes from Janus/Ada having started
as a university project, where things like naming and encapsulation weren't
used consistently (the latter because separate compilation was very weak in
our early tools). I just looked a couple of favorites: Gen_Name (which
generates the code for Ada "names") is 950 lines long, and it is mostly made
up of calls to other things. The root semantic routine is 2700 lines long
(it's a just a giant case statement with 378 whens at this writing: it
decides what to do with each grammar production as it is recognized).

Anyway, I do understand the readability concerns, but I think they're
overblown. If you have to look 5 pages away to find a variable declaration,
the readability of the code it is used in isn't necessarily enhanced: you're
still flipping back and forth. Moreover, trying to come up with good names
for code that are made into subprograms just to keep the code "short" is
hard, and I know I'm not good at it. These supposed helpers are a real
headache during maintenance, because its rarely obvious what they do! How do
that help readability??

                                   Randy.





  reply	other threads:[~2007-03-23  2:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 167+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <1172144043.746296.44680@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
     [not found] ` <slrnetr31o.875.Marc.Boyer@localhost.localdomain>
     [not found]   ` <1172161751.573558.24140@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
     [not found]     ` <slrnetri6j.875.Marc.Boyer@localhost.localdomain>
     [not found]       ` <546qkhF1tr7dtU1@mid.individual.net>
2007-02-23  8:09         ` why learn C? Marc Boyer
2007-03-20 17:37           ` adaworks
2007-03-21  8:07             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-03-21 13:39               ` Martin Krischik
2007-03-22  7:54                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-03-21 14:10               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-21 17:57                 ` adaworks
2007-03-21 18:48               ` adaworks
2007-03-21 18:39                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-21 20:09                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-21 20:25                 ` Use of declare blocks Randy Brukardt
2007-03-21 20:36                   ` Gautier
2007-03-21 20:37                   ` Gautier
2007-03-21 20:43                   ` Niklas Holsti
2007-03-21 21:29                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-22  1:17                       ` Adam Beneschan
2007-03-22  8:34                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-22  1:06                   ` Adam Beneschan
2007-03-22 17:59                   ` adaworks
2007-03-23  2:35                     ` Randy Brukardt [this message]
2007-03-23  5:23                       ` adaworks
2007-03-23  5:15                         ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-23 10:20                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-23 18:25                             ` commenting, was " tmoran
2007-03-24  0:32                               ` adaworks
2007-03-24  2:12                                 ` tmoran
2007-03-24  3:19                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-24  7:36                                     ` tmoran
2007-03-24 15:35                                       ` Simon Wright
2007-03-21 13:29             ` why learn C? Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-03-30  0:51             ` kevin  cline
2007-03-30  4:09               ` Steve
2007-03-30  4:58                 ` kevin  cline
2007-03-30  7:44                   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2007-03-30  9:09                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02  4:29                       ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02  6:45                         ` adaworks
2007-04-02  7:52                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02  8:19                           ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02 12:04                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02 23:37                             ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03 12:42                               ` Erasing inappropriate operations (was: why learn C?) Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-03 23:44                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-04  8:34                                   ` Erasing inappropriate operations Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-04 22:00                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03  0:16                         ` why learn C? Markus E Leypold
2007-04-04 16:14                           ` jayessay
2007-04-05  7:14                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-05 15:35                               ` jayessay
2007-04-06  2:02                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06  5:57                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-06 11:01                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-07 23:00                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-08 19:41                                         ` jayessay
2007-04-09 14:08                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 15:48                                           ` jayessay
2007-04-08 19:44                                       ` jayessay
2007-04-06 18:05                                     ` jayessay
2007-04-06 22:00                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06 23:46                                         ` jayessay
2007-04-06 23:59                                         ` jayessay
2007-04-06 22:16                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06 23:52                                       ` jayessay
2007-04-07  0:39                                         ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-06 17:52                                   ` jayessay
2007-03-30  8:29                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30  8:35                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 17:39                   ` adaworks
2007-03-31 14:59                     ` Steve
2007-03-31 15:59                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 14:32                         ` Ed Falis
2007-04-02  7:03                         ` adaworks
2007-03-31 15:14                     ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-02  5:27                     ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02  6:04                       ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-04-02  6:33                       ` Shortage on C / C++ experts Martin Krischik
2007-04-02  7:07                       ` why learn C? adaworks
2007-04-02  7:18                         ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02 13:00                       ` adaworks
2007-04-12 15:28                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 18:32                           ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-13 15:59                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-14 22:20                               ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 22:46                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-22 18:53                           ` adaworks
2007-04-22 19:50                             ` Gautier
2007-04-03  0:26                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-03  0:34                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-03  2:22                       ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-12 15:47                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:18                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-13 23:18                             ` kevin  cline
2007-04-14  9:38                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-14 10:57                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 15:10                                 ` Simon Wright
2007-04-15 16:05                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15  0:59                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-15 15:28                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12 16:39                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 20:54                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 20:33                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 21:40                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 20:50                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-13  0:32                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-14 22:27                                     ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14  1:20                           ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-02  5:03                   ` Brian May
2007-04-02  6:16                     ` kevin  cline
2007-04-03  0:00                       ` Brian May
2007-04-12 15:56                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:19                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-13 23:42                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-03  0:13                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-02 11:47                 ` Shortage on C / C++ experts Larry Kilgallen
2007-04-02 12:01                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-02 12:15                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02 18:47                       ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-04-02 20:43                         ` tmoran
2007-03-30  4:52               ` why learn C? jimmaureenrogers
2007-03-30  6:30                 ` Case Crab
2007-03-30  6:37                   ` Gautier
2007-03-30  9:17                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-31 13:18                     ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-01  1:23                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-01 11:59                         ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-02  6:37                       ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02  9:39                         ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-03-30 17:47                   ` adaworks
2007-03-30 19:25                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 20:29                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-31  9:52                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-01  1:35                       ` adaworks
2007-03-31  2:41                   ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-03-31 12:25                     ` not NASA Ada coding standard Stephen Leake
2007-03-31 15:44                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 16:22                       ` Simon Clubley
2007-04-02 10:08                         ` Stephen Leake
2007-04-02  7:43                     ` why learn C? kevin  cline
2007-04-02  8:45                       ` Martin Krischik
2007-04-02 10:54                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 16:05                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:48                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 18:27                           ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-13 16:21                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 21:11                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-13 15:45                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-02  8:13                     ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02 23:54                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03  2:58                       ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-12 16:24                       ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 18:05                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15  0:55                           ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-15  7:55                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-15 15:25                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-31 11:40                 ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                 ` <1175236212.771445.135460@y66g2Organization: LJK Software <c82IfUV$xbi8@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2007-03-31 18:56                   ` adaworks
2007-03-31 20:10                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 18:13                       ` tmoran
2007-03-31 19:33                   ` Cesar Rabak
2007-03-31 20:11                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30  8:16               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30  9:10               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-30 19:16               ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-01 11:41                 ` Martin Krischik
2007-04-01 17:03                   ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-01 18:13                   ` tmoran
2007-04-16  2:09             ` Brian May
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