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From: Maciej Sobczak <no.spam@no.spam.com>
Subject: Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:36:01 +0100
Date: 2007-02-09T11:36:01+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <eqhiqh$ofl$1@cernne03.cern.ch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <qjdhqe.138.ln@hunter.axlog.fr>

Jean-Pierre Rosen wrote:

>> While the inability to return limited types from a function is a bit of
>> an inconvenience, ...
> And you can always return a *pointer* to a limited type, which is what 
> you would do in most other languages.

Which is entirely missing the point.

The purpose of returning limited types from a function is to implement 
the constructor functionality for those types that are considered 
critical and cannot be left uninitialized.

Initialization by procedure is prone to bugs that cannot be checked at 
compile-time (forgetting or bypassing the initialization), same for 
initialization by pointer. Both "solutions" fail to meet the initial 
goal which is to enforce at compile time the proper initialization for 
selected important types.

The ideal solution is called "constructor", everything else is just 
patchwork. Returning limited types is a compromise that can be 
satisfying in most cases - that's why it's good that Ada 2005 provides 
at least this feature.

-- 
Maciej Sobczak : http://www.msobczak.com/
Programming    : http://www.msobczak.com/prog/



  reply	other threads:[~2007-02-09 10:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 397+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-01-23  5:53 How come Ada isn't more popular? artifact.one
2007-01-23  6:37 ` adaworks
2007-01-23  6:50   ` artifact.one
2007-01-23 14:24   ` Arthur Evans Jr
2007-01-23 20:11     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 21:14       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 15:23   ` Ed Falis
2007-01-23 20:09   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24  8:50     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-24 20:23       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 11:06     ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-24 19:25       ` tmoran
2007-01-25  4:46         ` Gautier
2007-01-25  9:29           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 16:59             ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-27 20:40               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 21:19                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28  8:44                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-01-29  8:56                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-29 14:21                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31  9:23                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-31 10:24                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02  8:42                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-02  9:32                           ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-02-02 11:04                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-02 13:57                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03  9:44                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:51                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 17:55                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:18                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 21:29                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 22:33                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  9:20                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 12:16                                           ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-05 14:06                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 13:53                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  9:59                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-05 13:43                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06  9:15                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-06 11:45                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 14:16                                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-06 15:44                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 17:40                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-07  8:55                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07  9:30                                           ` GC in Ada Martin Krischik
2007-02-07 11:08                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 11:15                                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07 11:53                                               ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-07 12:22                                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08  7:26                                                   ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-08  9:33                                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 13:37                                                       ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-09 13:47                                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 15:29                                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 20:52                                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08  7:48                                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08  8:20                                                   ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-08  8:43                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 14:20                                                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 16:23                                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-12  8:52                                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-12 12:56                                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08 18:24                                                   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-09  8:57                                                     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-09 12:57                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 14:44                                                         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-10 13:38                                                           ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-12  8:47                                                             ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-12 15:31                                                               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-09 18:35                                                       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-10 19:01                                                         ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-11 15:22                                                         ` Pascal Obry
2007-02-11 20:30                                                           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-13 18:47                                                             ` Pascal Obry
2007-02-13 23:08                                                               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-14 11:13                                                                 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-14 16:29                                                                   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-14 19:47                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-14 11:10                                                               ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-14 16:29                                                                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-15  8:39                                                                   ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-15 17:14                                                                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-08 18:38                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09  7:58                                                   ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 10:07                                                   ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-09 14:10                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-07 12:19                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08  7:54                                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08  9:49                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 10:10                                           ` How come Ada isn't more popular? Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 10:56                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 22:58                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08  9:04                                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08 10:01                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 17:47                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 18:05                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-06 18:28                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07  7:54                                           ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07  9:42                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08  8:10                                               ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08 18:14                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09  8:17                                               ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 14:02                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 18:08                                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:43                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 18:57                                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:03                                                 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:47                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-09 19:02                                                     ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 19:35                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-09 19:52                                                         ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-12  7:20                                                           ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-12 14:12                                                             ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 22:11                                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 22:05                                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-10  1:31                                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-10  2:18                                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 19:05                               ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09  8:01                           ` adaworks
2007-02-09  9:07                             ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-09 10:36                               ` Maciej Sobczak [this message]
2007-02-09 12:50                                 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 14:02                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-10 18:21                                     ` adaworks
2007-02-10 18:41                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-10 20:29                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 14:12                                   ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 19:41                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-12  9:07                                       ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-12 20:56                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-13  9:02                                           ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-14 10:12                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09  9:21                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 21:42           ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-28 19:32             ` Gautier
2007-01-30 19:41               ` tmoran
2007-01-25 22:21           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 11:31   ` Ali Bendriss
2007-01-27  5:12     ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-27  9:52       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 22:01         ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-27 23:24           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28  9:14             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-28 15:06               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 14:37                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-29 15:50                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-30 19:58                     ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-30 21:52                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31 22:49                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 23:07                           ` (see below)
2007-01-31 23:18                             ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 23:36                               ` (see below)
2007-02-01  7:57                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31 17:49                       ` Ed Falis
2007-01-31 22:53                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 10:55                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-31 15:16                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 14:22                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-01 15:18                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 16:26                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-01 17:36                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 20:53                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-01 21:57                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 22:03                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 23:40                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 16:54                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-03 18:39                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 20:06                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  0:06                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 13:58                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-05 14:23                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02  7:17                                 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-05  0:39                               ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05  1:00                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02  9:20                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 12:34                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03  9:45                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:16                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 19:33                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:44                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 23:00                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 23:21                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 14:27                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-02 16:07                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-01 19:31                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-01 22:54                             ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-02  1:37                               ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Ray Blaak
2007-02-02  9:35                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 12:44                                   ` in defense of GC Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 10:13                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:28                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 18:38                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:24                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 21:57                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 22:47                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 23:08                                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 15:57                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  8:47                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 14:03                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  0:23                                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05  0:55                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06  0:01                                             ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-06  1:06                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05  1:00                                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-05  1:19                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06  8:32                                               ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 11:07                                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 18:01                                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 18:25                                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 19:42                                                     ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06  0:18                                             ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-06  0:59                                               ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06  1:07                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 18:15                                   ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Ray Blaak
2007-02-02 19:35                                     ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-02 20:04                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 22:40                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-03 10:00                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:30                                           ` in defense of GC Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 12:36                                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 21:50                                 ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Gautier
2007-02-04  8:19                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-04 17:36                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-04 21:21                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-05  1:12                                 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05  9:06                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06  0:28                                     ` in defense of GC Robert A Duff
2007-02-06  8:24                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 11:50                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07  7:44                                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-07  8:54                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 11:19                                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 23:32                                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08  8:49                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 14:09                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 16:17                                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 20:51                                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 22:19                                                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08  9:24                                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 15:08                                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 19:01                                               ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-07 11:17                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 16:23                 ` How come Ada isn't more popular? Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-29 16:56                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 23:56       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-23  6:58 ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-23 10:31   ` Talulah
2007-01-23 13:48     ` Anders Wirzenius
2007-01-23 20:17     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 20:43       ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24  9:42       ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 20:48         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 10:02 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-23 16:49   ` adaworks
2007-01-23 17:40     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 12:51       ` Peter Hermann
2007-01-24 14:42         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 20:10   ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 22:37     ` Frank J. Lhota
2007-01-24  7:27       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24  9:50         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 20:25           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 21:34             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25  9:23               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  7:59               ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-26 20:05                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 22:43                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 21:19   ` Björn Persson
2007-01-23 10:38 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-23 12:58   ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-23 21:56   ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2007-01-24 13:52     ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-24 19:25     ` tmoran
2007-01-24 19:38     ` artifact.one
2007-01-26  2:50     ` Keith Thompson
2007-01-26  5:29     ` Gautier
2007-01-27  5:22     ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-23 19:16 ` Tero Koskinen
2007-01-23 21:12   ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24  9:59     ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 18:22       ` Yves Bailly
2007-01-24 19:18       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25  8:37         ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-25  9:40           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  8:52             ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-26 11:40               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 16:56             ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-27 19:58               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28 17:12                 ` Ed Falis
2007-01-28 18:38                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 10:13           ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25 12:54             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  7:03               ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25 13:08             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 22:36             ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 23:26               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  4:23                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 11:35                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 20:22                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 23:04                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 19:57                         ` Frank J. Lhota
2007-01-28 20:43                         ` adaworks
2007-01-28 22:57                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29  1:04                           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-28 20:32                   ` adaworks
2007-01-28 21:12                     ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-28 22:43                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 22:40                         ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-30  9:31                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-30 16:19                           ` adaworks
2007-01-30 21:05                             ` Jeffrey Creem
2007-01-31  7:59                               ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-02-03 16:33                                 ` Martin Krischik
2007-01-28 22:38                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 16:16                       ` adaworks
2007-01-29 16:35                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29  1:02                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-30  0:21                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-26  7:21                 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-26  7:16               ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-27  5:30             ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-24 20:10   ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-23 20:02 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24  7:18   ` adaworks
2007-01-24 14:19   ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-24 15:27     ` Poll on background of Ada people (was: How come Ada isn't more po) Larry Kilgallen
2007-01-23 21:36 ` How come Ada isn't more popular? kevin  cline
2007-01-23 22:18   ` Martin Dowie
2007-01-24  4:14     ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-24  7:30       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 20:15         ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-25 22:16           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 23:32             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  8:50               ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-26 11:52                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29  6:16                   ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-29 14:31                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26  8:56               ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-26 11:49                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 22:05             ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-24  7:31     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24  7:42     ` kevin  cline
2007-01-24  8:07       ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24 12:12         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 12:48           ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24 14:49             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 13:40           ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 14:50             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 17:22               ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 17:56                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 18:09                   ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 19:37                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 19:52                       ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 21:31                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-19  2:09                           ` adaworks
2007-01-25  7:52                     ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-24 16:25         ` Adam Beneschan
2007-01-24 17:03           ` Niklas Holsti
2007-01-25 15:37           ` Bob Spooner
2007-02-06  9:54         ` Dave Thompson
2007-02-06 11:01           ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-02-26  5:47             ` Dave Thompson
2007-01-24 16:14       ` adaworks
2007-01-25  0:22         ` kevin  cline
2007-01-25  6:04           ` adaworks
2007-01-25 10:37             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-25 23:36               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 10:42           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-25  8:27         ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25  4:50       ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-27  5:43       ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-27  8:38         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-28 12:11           ` Michael Bode
2007-01-28 15:20             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29  9:44               ` Martin Krischik
2007-01-27 13:06         ` Gautier
2007-01-27 16:28           ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-28  0:55           ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-28  1:18             ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-28 17:06             ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-28 21:11             ` adaworks
2007-01-24 19:33   ` Arthur Evans Jr
     [not found]     ` <egYth.15026$w91.10597@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
2007-01-25 22:34       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 22:55         ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-26 19:59           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-27  3:54         ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-24  0:12 ` JPWoodruff
2007-01-24 10:32   ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-25  1:01   ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-26  5:01     ` JPWoodruff
2007-03-05  2:19 ` Brian May
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-02-10  4:18 Randy Brukardt
2007-02-10  9:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-10 13:22   ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-10 15:54     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-12 14:23       ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-12 15:49         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
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