Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Larry Kilgallen]

Group: comp.lang.ada,  Item: 118747        (Range: #115200 - #118755, Unread: 6)

From: "dulcie schmidt" <lavadamohr@easypeasy.com>                    
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada  
Subject: Improve Desire & Performance
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:42:07 +0100   
Organization: Cuivre, Argent, Or       
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <mailman.349.1097919869.390.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>
Reply-To: dulcie schmidt <lavadamohr@easypeasy.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelace.ada-france.org

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Samuel Tardieu]

>>>>> "Larry" == Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> writes:

[...stripped spammed information...]

Larry, please read my message posted earlier today. Also, on the
gateway page[1] you can find my address to reach me directly.

  Sam

Notes: 
[1] http://www.ada-france.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada 
-- 
Samuel Tardieu -- sam@rfc1149.net -- http://www.rfc1149.net/sam

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <87is9ahi5a.fsf@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net>, Samuel Tardieu <sam@rfc1149.net> writes:
>>>>>> "Larry" == Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> writes:
> 
> [...stripped spammed information...]
> 
> Larry, please read my message posted earlier today. Also, on the

I have read that, which arrived at my neighborhood news server after
the two items I quoted above.

> gateway page[1] you can find my address to reach me directly.

I am not interested in visiting your gateway page or otherwise debugging
your flawed spam vector.  I am certainly not interested in hiding this
problem behind private email.  Your ISP has been shuffling off the blame
for months, so the only hope is that you and your organization might take
an attitude of due care toward the rest of the Ada community.

Since you have not done so to date, it would seem the only hope is to
shame you into responsible internet behavior.

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Samuel Tardieu]

>>>>> "Larry" == Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> writes:

>> Larry, please read my message posted earlier today. Also, on the

Larry> I have read that, which arrived at my neighborhood news server
Larry> after the two items I quoted above.

Maybe you should read all the posts before answering them.

>> gateway page[1] you can find my address to reach me directly.

Larry> I am not interested in visiting your gateway page or otherwise
Larry> debugging your flawed spam vector.  I am certainly not
Larry> interested in hiding this problem behind private email.

Well, I guess that if this is the way you work with other people, I
won't be able to change that.

Larry> Your ISP has been shuffling off the blame for months, so the
Larry> only hope is that you and your organization might take an
Larry> attitude of due care toward the rest of the Ada community.

Of course our ISP has been ignoring that, it only provides
connectivity, it doesn't have to interfere with our actions. But... do
you mean you contacted our ISP privately? "hiding this problem behind
private email" ? And you didn't bother to contact us?

Larry> Since you have not done so to date, it would seem the only hope
Larry> is to shame you into responsible internet behavior.

As far as I know, our gateway (our "flawed spammer vector" as you call
it) is the only freely available one, used by more than 50 people who
may not be able to access usenet news otherwise. If it has been abused
by spammers, well, this is life, and we are taking measures right now
to enhance our anti-spam system.

  Sam
-- 
Samuel Tardieu -- sam@rfc1149.net -- http://www.rfc1149.net/sam

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Samuel Tardieu]

>>>>> "Larry" == Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> writes:

Larry> I am not interested in visiting your gateway page or otherwise
Larry> debugging your flawed spam vector.  I am certainly not
Larry> interested in hiding this problem behind private email.  Your
Larry> ISP has been shuffling off the blame for months, so the only
Larry> hope is that you and your organization might take an attitude
Larry> of due care toward the rest of the Ada community.

Come on Larry, you didn't contact us because you are not interested in
"hiding this problem behind private email", but you contacted our ISP
privately, that is "hiding this problem behind private email"? There
are better ways to work together for the Ada community.

  Sam
-- 
Samuel Tardieu -- sam@rfc1149.net -- http://www.rfc1149.net/sam

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Hyman Rosen]

Samuel Tardieu wrote:
> There are better ways to work together for the Ada community.

You are gatewaying spam to the newsgroup. I don't care how valuable
you think you are to the Ada community. As of now, you are nothing
but an annoying nuisance.

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Stephen Leake]

Samuel Tardieu <sam@rfc1149.net> writes:

> >>>>> "Larry" == Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> writes:
> 
> Larry> Since you have not done so to date, it would seem the only hope
> Larry> is to shame you into responsible internet behavior.
> 
> As far as I know, our gateway (our "flawed spammer vector" as you call
> it) is the only freely available one, used by more than 50 people who
> may not be able to access usenet news otherwise. If it has been abused
> by spammers, well, this is life, and we are taking measures right now
> to enhance our anti-spam system.

As one of those 50 people, I support Sam. Larry, cool down a bit. The
spam has only recently gotten to be an annoyance. It is not anywhere
near "bad". Give them a chance to fix the problem. This entire system
is supported by volunteers; you can't treat them like a support
contract company!

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Stephen Leake]

Hyman Rosen <hyrosen@mail.com> writes:

> Samuel Tardieu wrote:
> > There are better ways to work together for the Ada community.
> 
> You are gatewaying spam to the newsgroup. I don't care how valuable
> you think you are to the Ada community. 

Interesting. How can you be part of the "Ada community", and not care
about another part of it?

> As of now, you are nothing but an annoying nuisance.

Sorry, Hyman. In my opinion, _your_ post is the annoying nuisance!

It's the _spammers_ that are truly annoying. Let's not shoot the
messenger here!

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Dale Stanbrough]

Stephen Leake wrote:

> Samuel Tardieu <sam@rfc1149.net> writes:

> As one of those 50 people, I support Sam. Larry, cool down a bit. The
> spam has only recently gotten to be an annoyance. It is not anywhere
> near "bad".

For a given definition of "bad" I suppose. I don't like the volume
that i've been seeing, especially as we shouldn't have to have
-any- via a poorly maintained system.

> Give them a chance to fix the problem.

How much time do they need?

> This entire system
> is supported by volunteers; you can't treat them like a support
> contract company!

I see lots of drivers on the road who are not being paid to drive,
but I still expect them to obey the road rules and drive safely.

Dale

-- 
dstanbro@spam.o.matic.bigpond.net.au

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Stephen Leake]

Dale Stanbrough <MrNoSpam@bigpoop.net.au> writes:

> Stephen Leake wrote:
> 
> > Samuel Tardieu <sam@rfc1149.net> writes:
> 
> > As one of those 50 people, I support Sam. Larry, cool down a bit. The
> > spam has only recently gotten to be an annoyance. It is not anywhere
> > near "bad".
> 
> For a given definition of "bad" I suppose. I don't like the volume
> that i've been seeing, 

There are _lots_ of posts on comp.lang.ada that I "don't like"; spam
is a small subset of that :). That's life in a public forum.

> especially as we shouldn't have to have -any- via a poorly
> maintained system.

I don't see any evidence of "poor maintenance". I see some lack of
foresight in the design of the Mailman newsgroup/mailing list gateway.
But at the time Mailman was designed, spam was not an issue, so that's
understandable.

> > Give them a chance to fix the problem.
> 
> How much time do they need?

As I see it, they've only been trying for about a week. I would easily
give them a couple months.

> > This entire system is supported by volunteers; you can't treat
> > them like a support contract company!
> 
> I see lots of drivers on the road who are not being paid to drive,
> but I still expect them to obey the road rules and drive safely.

Well, I guess that is a good analogy. But when a new road opens up
(spam starts happening), you give people a while to adjust their
commuting habits, and expect traffic jams for a while.

It's not like the spam is causing lost real messages, or damaging
anything (road accidents)!

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Samuel Tardieu]

>>>>> "Dale" == Dale Stanbrough <MrNoSpam@bigpoop.net.au> writes:

Dale> How much time do they need?

I got notified of this problem yesterday evening; I believe it is
fixed now. So we needed less than 24 hours (during the week end) to
take measures after having been notified that this was a problem. This
would have been fixed within the same delay if the notification had
arrived in a private email instead of an aggressive post with an
offensive subject.

So to end on a positive note, I'll repost the comp.lang.ada and
fr.comp.lang.ada email<->news gateway addresses:

   http://www.ada-france.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada
   http://www.ada-france.org/mailman/listinfo/fr.comp.lang.ada

 Sam
-- 
Samuel Tardieu -- sam@rfc1149.net -- http://www.rfc1149.net/sam

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <87is99fq1r.fsf@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net>, Samuel Tardieu <sam@rfc1149.net> writes:
>>>>>> "Dale" == Dale Stanbrough <MrNoSpam@bigpoop.net.au> writes:
> 
> Dale> How much time do they need?
> 
> I got notified of this problem yesterday evening; I believe it is
> fixed now. So we needed less than 24 hours (during the week end) to
> take measures after having been notified that this was a problem. This
> would have been fixed within the same delay if the notification had
> arrived in a private email instead of an aggressive post with an
> offensive subject.

Your ISP has been notified for months.

Obviously their relations with you are severely broken.

At the time I saw no headers indicating that anyone other than the ISP
was to be contacted regarding spam or other abuse issues.

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <mailman.15.1098018550.10401.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>, Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@acm.org> writes:
> Dale Stanbrough <MrNoSpam@bigpoop.net.au> writes:
> 
>> Stephen Leake wrote:
>> 
>> > Samuel Tardieu <sam@rfc1149.net> writes:
>> 
>> > As one of those 50 people, I support Sam. Larry, cool down a bit. The
>> > spam has only recently gotten to be an annoyance. It is not anywhere
>> > near "bad".
>> 
>> For a given definition of "bad" I suppose. I don't like the volume
>> that i've been seeing, 
> 
> There are _lots_ of posts on comp.lang.ada that I "don't like"; spam
> is a small subset of that :). That's life in a public forum.

Personally I am not interested in discussions specific to GNAT or
Ada on Linux.  But they _are_ about Ada and thus on-topic for this
newsgroup.

Re: Ada France - stop spamming the newsgroup

[Randy Brukardt]

"Samuel Tardieu" <sam@rfc1149.net> wrote in message
news:87is99fq1r.fsf@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net...
> >>>>> "Dale" == Dale Stanbrough <MrNoSpam@bigpoop.net.au> writes:
>
> Dale> How much time do they need?
>
> I got notified of this problem yesterday evening; I believe it is
> fixed now. So we needed less than 24 hours (during the week end) to
> take measures after having been notified that this was a problem. This
> would have been fixed within the same delay if the notification had
> arrived in a private email instead of an aggressive post with an
> offensive subject.

If it was so easy to fix, why the heck didn't you fix it when I complained
about it here in (I think) June???

Yes, I didn't send you a complaint directly, simply because I didn't have a
working address for you. You gave me that, but didn't fix the spam. No
public mailing list should accept messages from non-subscribers, period, and
its hard for me to believe that any mailing list package wouldn't reasonably
support that configuration.

Anyway, enough venting. The amount of spam recently is better (but not zero,
which is the only acceptable number - to my knowledge, no spam has been
published on Ada-Comment, even though we get  more than 100 pieces of spam a
day directed to it).

                  Randy.


                         Randy.