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From: aek@vib.usr.pu.ru (Alexander Kopilovitch)
Subject: Re: Boeing and Dreamliner
Date: 24 Jun 2003 13:37:57 -0700
Date: 2003-06-24T20:37:58+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <e2e5731a.0306241237.7cb0c990@posting.google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Y6YJa.40577$hI1.28108@nwrddc01.gnilink.net

Hyman Rosen wrote:

>But the original designers didn't leave any indication behind that the
>software they had written would fail in such a modified usage. That's
>not just my conclusion, that's the conclusion of the investigatory
>board. Had they documented the limits on trajectories, teh Ariane 5
>team would have known that the code needed to be re-examined.
>
>Since when do Ada advocates favor testing over documentation?

Testing is a fundamental requirement for any enginering. Please, read this
attentively: for any engineering. This is one of main characteristcs that
differentiate engineering from scientific exploration, art, terrorism... all
activities, good or bad, looking for a chance.

Software engineering is, first of all, a kind and a part of engineering,
therefore it inherits testing as its fundamental requirement.

Ada language was designed and is used primarily for software engineering.
So it should not surprise anyone when Ada advocates demand testing.

In engineering, documentation is (and always was) secondary vs. testing.
Just like your human rights are secondary vs. your need to eat -- you may be
very unhappy without you rights or with restricted rights, but you still can
keep hope for future liberation and future better life; but if you don't eat
you'll certainly die very soon,

Returning to the Ariane 5 case, if I were Civil Investigator for this case,
I would close civil part of the investigation at the moment when I became
aware of absence of testing -- at that moment I'd call for Criminal Investigator.
Then, criminal part of the investigation must decide whether there was major
neglect or deliberate plot (sabotage or financial affair, for example), and
all technical details (about numbers, stacks, overflows etc.) naturally
belongs to it. Personally, I think that Criminal Investigator would suspect
a plot when he discovered that the launch was doomed unconditionally.


Alexander Kopilovitch                      aek@vib.usr.pu.ru
Saint-Petersburg
Russia



  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-06-24 20:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 130+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-06-20  3:18 Boeing and Dreamliner Robert Love
2003-06-20 10:29 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-21  2:20   ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-06-23 10:45     ` Robert Kaiser
2003-06-23 11:43       ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-23 12:21         ` Martin Dowie
2003-06-23 12:23           ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-23 13:02             ` Martin Dowie
2003-06-23 13:02         ` Robert Kaiser
2003-06-20 14:44 ` Matt Brenneke
2003-06-20 17:23   ` Wojtek Narczynski
2003-06-21  4:28     ` rleif
2003-06-22  3:56       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-22  9:15         ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-23 18:00           ` Mike Silva
2003-06-22 11:51         ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-22 13:37           ` Marin David Condic
2003-06-22 15:06             ` James Rogers
2003-06-22 15:52               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-06-22 18:18                 ` Tino Goertemoeller
2003-06-23  3:26               ` John R. Strohm
2003-06-23  5:54                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-23 10:12                   ` Understanding and Teaching: Who may teach Ada? Georg Bauhaus
2003-06-24  1:34                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-24 12:13                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-06-25  2:59                     ` John R. Strohm
2003-06-25  4:44                       ` Wesley Groleau
2003-06-25  5:55                         ` Anders Wirzenius
2003-06-25 14:03                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-06-23 21:08                   ` Boeing and Dreamliner Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-24  3:16                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-23 15:40                 ` Wesley Groleau
2003-06-23  5:04               ` rleif
2003-06-22 18:07           ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-06-23  9:32           ` AG
2003-06-23 11:12             ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-27 16:30             ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-22 15:10         ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-06-22 18:22         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-23 18:24           ` Mike Silva
2003-06-24  2:13           ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-24  2:35             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24  5:22               ` Mike Silva
2003-06-24  6:14                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24  6:38                   ` tmoran
2003-06-24 13:08                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 17:59                       ` tmoran
2003-06-24 18:01                       ` Mike Silva
2003-06-25 11:50                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-06-24 10:56                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-24 13:04                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 20:54                   ` Pascal Obry
2003-06-24 12:06                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-06-24 13:12                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 14:20                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-24 14:33                     ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-06-24 20:37                     ` Alexander Kopilovitch [this message]
2003-06-25 11:58                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-06-24  7:10               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-24  7:35                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 17:29                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-27 17:15                     ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-27 17:31                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-06-28  1:27                         ` Wesley Groleau
2003-06-28  6:32                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-27 17:38                       ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-28  2:18                       ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-24 16:35                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-06-24 10:48               ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-24 13:16                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 14:49                   ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-24 22:48                   ` Wesley Groleau
2003-06-25  0:41                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-25 10:28                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-06-25 21:15                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-26  2:30                           ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-27 17:19                           ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-25 18:00                       ` Mike Silva
2003-06-24  6:22             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-24 13:21               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-24 16:38                 ` 
2003-06-24 18:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-26  2:00               ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-26 19:12                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-27  2:21                   ` Alexander Kopilovitch
     [not found]         ` <ts6hs-vk4.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-06-22 18:59           ` Simon Wright
2003-06-23 18:20         ` Pascal Obry
2003-06-25  8:08         ` Thierry Lelegard
2003-06-27 16:24         ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-27 16:31           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-27 18:08             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-27 19:00               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-28  0:33             ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-29  6:54               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-29  8:30                 ` AG
2003-06-29 16:06                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2003-06-29 20:20                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-30 13:50                     ` Alexander Kopilovitch
     [not found]                     ` <t9i7t-0i3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-07-01 11:55                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-07-02 15:02                         ` rleif
2003-07-03  7:38                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-29 16:56                 ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-06-29 20:22                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-29 21:09                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-29 21:19                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-29 21:31                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-06-29 21:39                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-30  0:07                             ` Berend de Boer
2003-06-29 18:26                 ` Richard Riehle
2003-06-29 20:45                   ` Hyman Rosen
2003-06-30 15:55                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-07-04  0:21                       ` Dave Thompson
2003-07-04 16:42                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-07-01  1:08                     ` Alexander Kopilovitch
2003-07-03 16:43                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-07-01  1:14                     ` Richard Riehle
2003-07-01  5:31                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-07-01  7:30                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-07-01 12:57                           ` John R. Strohm
2003-07-04  3:56                             ` Wesley Groleau
2003-07-04  5:05                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-06-21 12:55   ` Pascal Obry
2003-06-20 19:59 ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-06-20 22:40   ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-06-20 21:21     ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-06-21  4:28     ` rleif
2003-06-21  8:05     ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-21 10:32       ` Bobby D. Bryant
2003-06-21 10:44         ` Preben Randhol
2003-06-23 16:57           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
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