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From: Maciej Sobczak <no.spam@no.spam.com>
Subject: Re: Ada Quality and Style book discussion ("_Type" suffix)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:23:22 +0100
Date: 2005-11-18T10:23:22+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dlk6ia$mv7$1@sunnews.cern.ch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <sa4iruqy7u4.fsf@snoopy.microcomaustralia.com.au>

Brian May wrote:

>     Marc> (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/wrong.html).
> 
> Looks like a good article.

I agree, but there is some bias in it, see below.

> 
> In a strongly typed language, I would prefer to use different types,
> so the compiler does the checking.

I fully agree. Making wrong code *look* wrong is a good idea, but it is 
only half of the solution. Complete solution is making wrong code *fail 
to validate* in the automated way (compilation belongs to this).

> However, if you have to use a language that isn't strongly typed, good
> Hungarian notation looks like a good compromise.

Fully agreed. The problem with this article is that it does not name the 
languages to which it mostly applies and instead makes an impression 
that it applies to every language. Certainly Hungarian notation (in its 
original sense) is a good compromise in C, PHP, Perl and other languages 
where you cannot express separate domains with separate types.
But I consider it to be useless for languages that provide the way to 
separate domains of interest by defining separate types, possibly with 
dedicated functions as the only gateways for conversions between those 
domains. Ada is such a language. C++ is also such a language and the 
problem with this article is that it might suggest the opposite to those 
who don't know it.

> With respect to his complaint on exception handling - I like the Java
> model where every exception that can be raised by a function has to be
> declared [...]

Except that the exception is not necessarily a contract between the 
direct caller and that function. Consider the sorting procedure, which 
accepts, as a parameter, a comparator which might throw some exception:

Caller -- catches/handles exception

    -> Sorting_Function(array, comparator)

          -> comparator.Compare(...) -- throws/raises exception

The type of this exception is actually a contract between the caller of 
sorting function and the comparator. The sorting function itself should 
be completely transparent w.r.t. exception that is thrown/raised by 
comparator and catched/handled by the caller. Java got it wrong.

 > Nor does Ada have a
> "finally" clause.

Ada doesn't need it (nor C++).
Finalizers + object lifetime controlled by scope is a superior tool.


-- 
Maciej Sobczak : http://www.msobczak.com/
Programming    : http://www.msobczak.com/prog/



  reply	other threads:[~2005-11-18  9:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-11-15 16:03 Request for comments on simple Ada program Maciej Sobczak
2005-11-15 17:43 ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-11-15 17:47   ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-11-15 21:28   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-11-15 21:53     ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-11-16  9:10       ` Anders Wirzenius
2005-11-15 21:55     ` Samuel Tardieu
2005-11-16  9:03     ` Niklas Holsti
2005-11-16 14:21       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-11-16 17:08         ` Niklas Holsti
2005-11-16  7:11   ` Brian May
2005-11-15 18:29 ` jimmaureenrogers
2005-11-15 19:33   ` tmoran
2005-11-16 14:46     ` jimmaureenrogers
2005-11-16 18:05       ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-16 19:54       ` tmoran
2005-11-15 18:52 ` Martin Krischik
2005-11-15 19:33 ` tmoran
2005-11-16  3:10   ` Ada Quality and Style book discussion Anonymous Coward
2005-11-16  4:09     ` tmoran
2005-11-16  5:49     ` Simon Wright
2005-11-16  7:03       ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17  4:49         ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-17  6:48           ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17 11:45           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-11-17 12:37             ` Stephen Leake
2005-11-17 13:24               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-11-17 23:15                 ` Stephen Leake
2005-11-19 20:28                   ` Don't use the "use" clause Anonymous Coward
2005-11-19 20:35                     ` Ed Falis
2005-11-21 17:36                       ` David Emery
2005-11-21 19:20                         ` Ed Falis
2005-11-21 22:21                           ` David Trudgett
2005-11-21 22:51                             ` Ed Falis
2005-11-22  0:15                           ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-23  4:09                             ` Ed Falis
2005-11-23 19:26                               ` tmoran
2005-11-19 21:48                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-19 22:33                       ` Simon Wright
2005-11-19 23:40                       ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-20 11:07                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-20 19:50                       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-11-20  2:53                     ` Stephen Leake
2005-11-20  3:57                       ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-20 10:44                     ` Pascal Obry
2005-11-20 19:48                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-11-22  5:11                     ` greptree lou
2005-11-22  6:08                       ` greptree Simon Wright
2005-11-25  1:00                       ` greptree Björn Persson
2006-01-23 12:51                     ` Don't use the "use" clause adaworks
2006-01-23 20:21                       ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2006-01-24  2:27                         ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-24  3:32                           ` Ed Falis
2006-01-24  4:44                           ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2006-01-24 22:53                             ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-24  8:54                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-24  9:48                             ` Martin Dowie
2006-01-24 10:28                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-24 13:30                                 ` brian.b.mcguinness
2006-01-24 20:03                                   ` Simon Wright
2006-01-24 23:00                                   ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-25  4:58                                     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2006-01-24 23:38                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-25 14:49                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-25 21:46                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-26  9:14                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-27  1:04                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-27 15:23                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-27 16:35                                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2006-01-27 23:09                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-27 23:18                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2006-01-28 10:41                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-01-24 22:55                             ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-24  9:42                           ` Martin Dowie
2006-01-24 23:02                             ` Stephen Leake
2006-01-25  9:14                               ` Martin Dowie
2006-01-25 11:01                             ` Peter Amey
2006-01-25 11:06                               ` Martin Dowie
2006-01-25 20:07                               ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2006-01-31  2:24                               ` Stephen Leake
2006-02-09  5:13                       ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-17 20:55           ` Ada Quality and Style book discussion Simon Wright
2005-11-18  0:44             ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-11-19 20:56             ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-19 22:41               ` Simon Wright
2005-11-20  0:03                 ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-17  4:23       ` Ada Quality and Style book discussion ("_Type" suffix) Anonymous Coward
2005-11-17 10:51         ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-19 21:52           ` Anonymous Coward
2005-11-20 15:50             ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17 11:34         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-11-17 11:53           ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17 13:26             ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-11-17 12:26           ` Brian May
2005-11-17 13:45             ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-17 14:22               ` Marc A. Criley
2005-11-17 14:50                 ` Martin Dowie
2005-11-18  3:04                 ` Brian May
2005-11-18  9:23                   ` Maciej Sobczak [this message]
2005-11-18 14:00                     ` Marc A. Criley
2005-11-18 11:48                   ` Java exception model. Was: " Peter C. Chapin
2005-11-18 13:18                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-19 18:06                       ` Peter C. Chapin
2005-11-19 18:58                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-21 22:38                           ` Brian May
2005-11-21 23:27                           ` Brian May
2005-11-18 22:33                   ` Simon Wright
2005-11-17 14:03             ` Hyman Rosen
2005-11-20 19:41         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-11-20 20:43           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-11-21  0:00             ` Simon Wright
2005-11-16 13:51     ` Ada Quality and Style book discussion Marc A. Criley
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