From: dkumar@blackcat (Deepak Kumar)
Subject: First Language Debate etc.
Date: 1995/04/20
Date: 1995-04-20T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <dkumar.798383932@blackcat> (raw)
In-Reply-To: dewar.798344756@gnat
Here are few points I would like to make in this debate:
1) With regards to CS1 the choice of a programming environment is as
important as the language.
For instance, I haven't seen anything close to Semantec's THINK Pascal
environment for either C++, Ada, SML, Miranda, and fill your favorite
new language here. Before someone refers me to Semantec/Metrowerks C++
products, let me say that I have evaluated them both and they do not
come close. Semantec's is better than Metrowerks Codewarrior. The latter
are more obsessed with the fact that their compilers produce efficient
PowerPC code and think that that is enough reason for the world to kneel
and proclaim "we're not worthy".
But seriously, one has to really take the programming environment into
account. The added factor (at least for me) is how well some of the native
hardware facilities are integrated into the language. In the case of
THINK PASCAL all the QuickDraw graphics, mouse, and sound capabilities are
accessible through convenient library routines. This adds a significant
pedagogical aspect to the teaching of CS1.
2) Somehow, the push towards C++ seems to be motivated more by "industry"
pressures than anything else. If the industry is content with hiring C++
programmers rather than computer scientists the schools ought to follow
suit...produce C++ programmers. What a concept!
CS1 is only an introduction to Computer Problem Solving/Computer Science.
A typical CS curriculum requires upwards of 11 other CS courses, about
at least 7 of which have a serious programming component in them. In other
words, there is ample time to learn what employers want.
3) Then there is the issue of using non-procedural programming languages
for CS1. This is a luxury schools with large programs can afford. It is
claimed that, in the long run, it produces better computer scienctists.
The jury is still out on this.
Personally, this still suffers from point 1 above, lack of a decent
environment that is affordable by ALL. The real-world is still mostly
procedural...
I personally am of the opinion that there ought to be a follow up course
to CS1 (the procedural version) that introduces computer problem solving
in other paradigms...enter SML, Miranda, Haskell, Prolog, SmallTalk,
Eiffel, etc. I have created such a course (see a related paper by following
http://www.brynmawr.edu/~dkumar/) and am in the process of writing a text
for it. I am also planning a panel discussion on this at the next ACM/CSC
(interested people, please contact me).
4) What about Ada? I would like to use Ada in CS1, but it also suffers
from point 1 above :-( no decent programming environment for CS1.
I will be using Ada in CS2 (using the SUN Ada Compiler and possible
GNAT, when we get to the Ada95 parts). Will share experiences when we
get there.
5) This semester I taught Ada as well as C++ in the Programming Language
Concepts class....reactions were mixed, some wouldn't have anything to
do with Ada, some loved it. Personally, I an neutral to both. I like aspects
of both.
6) Then there is also the issue of textbooks....
Anyway, if you read all this, thanks!, and please write back or contribute
to this discussion...we have had several throwbacks on Ada and its use
in the industry, as if that was the only way to promote the language
in education. I could care less whether school-A, ranked in the top-X,
uses language-Y unless there is a discussion of the factors than went into
the decision making process.
Deepak.
--
Deepak Kumar
Department of Mathematics & Computer Science
Bryn Mawr College
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1995-04-20 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 35+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <3mq0jd$r10@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com>
1995-04-19 0:00 ` No top schools use Ada Kenneth Almquist
1995-04-18 0:00 ` cjames
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Kenneth Almquist
[not found] ` <3n10sv$i97@gopher.cs.uofs.edu>
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Fernando Mato Mira
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Which first-course languages? (was: What schools use Eiffel (was: No top schools use Ada)) ? Spencer Allain
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Scott Wheeler
1995-04-21 0:00 ` Neil Wilson
[not found] ` <NEWTNews.27781.798049024.ir001168@cec-services-01>
[not found] ` <3mrg2c$onn@disunms.epfl.ch>
[not found] ` <tomkwongD76x5L.AED@netcom.com>
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Theodore Dennison
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Theodore Dennison
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Scott Wheeler
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1995-04-21 0:00 ` Jeremiah S Patterson
1995-04-21 0:00 ` Scott Wheeler
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Which first-course languages? (was: What schools use Eiffel (was Geert Bosch
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Which first-course languages? (was: What schools use Eiffel (was: No top schools use Ada)) ? Robert Johnson
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1995-04-21 0:00 ` Des Kenny
1995-04-21 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1995-04-20 0:00 ` What schools use Eiffel ? Igor Chudov
1995-04-21 0:00 ` Madison Cloutier
[not found] ` <D759Az.GHM@cs.fredonia.edu>
1995-04-19 0:00 ` No top schools use Ada Michael Sperber [Mr. Preprocessor]
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Ian S Nelson
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1995-04-19 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Deepak Kumar [this message]
1995-04-20 0:00 ` First Language Debate etc Robert Dewar
1995-04-21 0:00 ` Deepak Kumar
1995-04-20 0:00 ` No top schools use Ada Brian Hanson
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
[not found] ` <NEWTNews.19974.798127420.cjames@cec-services-01>
1995-04-18 0:00 ` Jay M Martin
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1995-04-20 0:00 ` cjames
1995-04-20 0:00 ` Vladimir Vukicevic
1995-04-22 0:00 ` Chris Morgan
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