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From: "Bob Spooner" <rls19@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Surprise in array concatenation
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:22:52 -0400
Date: 2005-09-06T09:22:52-04:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dfk57g$urs$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: wccoe77nq3l.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com


"Robert A Duff" <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:wccoe77nq3l.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com...
> tmoran@acm.org writes:
>
snip...
>
> Slices should slide to the lower bound.  The Ada rule breaks
> abstraction:

So if I pass a subprogram a slice of an array indexed by an enumeration type
then the mapping of the values to the enumeration type should change?

>
>     procedure P(X: String) is
>     begin
>         ...
>     end P;
>
>     Y: String := "Hello, world!";
>
>     P(Y(3..4));
>
> Inside the body of P, X is just a String -- we don't (or shouldn't) know
> that it's a substring of Y.  So we can't possibly make any sense (inside
> P) of the fact that X'First = 3.  Index 3 from what?
>
> If I ran the circus, X'First would be 1.
>

But that would make String a special case of an array if you allow other
arrays to start with a value other than the first value of the index type.
Yet another thing we would have to remember...

>
> I wouldn't insist on starting _all_ arrays at 1, but I think it makes
> sense for _many_ arrays, including String.
>

Many other special cases to remember as well?

snip...
>
> - Bob

In my view, the abstraction that is important here is that of the array
rather than that of the subprogram seeing a slice as always beginning with
Index'first. The characteristics of the abstraction of an array should be as
consistent in Ada as possible. While having the first value of a String and
whatever types of arrays you think are appropriate always be the first value
of the index type would save some memory and computation time, Ada is one of
the few languages where the array is a powerful and safe abstraction. It is
therefore much more useful than in other languages, making consistency of
behavior all the more important and, I think, worth the price in
computation. To make arrays robust and safe in C type languages, for
instance, involves adding a lot more baggage than an extra integer value and
a little bit of computation done transparently by the compiler.

Bob





  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-09-06 13:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 108+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-09-01  3:16 Surprise in array concatenation Gene
2005-09-01  7:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-01  8:02   ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-01 11:48     ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01 12:02       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2005-09-01 13:01         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01 15:54       ` Florian Weimer
2005-09-01 16:09     ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-05  8:38       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-05 23:52         ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  9:03           ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-07 17:57         ` adaworks
2005-09-07 20:01           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-08  8:08             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-07 22:46           ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-08  4:43             ` Simon Wright
2005-09-08 10:36               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-08 13:47                 ` Ed Falis
2005-09-08 17:03                   ` Pascal Obry
2005-09-08 16:45               ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-08 19:37                 ` Simon Wright
2005-09-08  6:32             ` adaworks
2005-09-08  9:09               ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-08 16:56               ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-09 14:04                 ` Bob Spooner
2005-09-09 16:17                 ` adaworks
2005-09-23 23:04               ` Randy Brukardt
2005-09-14  8:57           ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2005-09-23 23:09           ` Randy Brukardt
2005-09-24 10:49             ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-24 20:27             ` Lurker
2005-09-25  0:20             ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-25 17:05             ` adaworks
2005-09-01 11:42   ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01 13:59     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-01 15:36       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01 18:34         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 10:43           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-02 13:11             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 14:23               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-02 19:48                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 17:21           ` Björn Persson
2005-09-01 16:04   ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-01 18:06     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 10:42       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-02 13:20         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-02 14:14           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-02 19:48             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-03 20:01               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-04 10:13                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 13:22                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-05 15:50                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 18:20                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-05 18:31                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-06  8:20                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-06 11:52                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-06 13:46                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-06 15:51                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-06 21:32                                 ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-07  9:08                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-07 18:20                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-07 19:07                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-07 21:23                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-08 10:27                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-08 11:39                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-08 13:44                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-08 18:18                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-09 10:06                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-09 12:26                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-09 12:29                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-01  8:48 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-01 15:57 ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-01 21:42   ` Gene
2005-09-01 22:56     ` tmoran
2005-09-05 15:53       ` Gene
2005-09-05 17:47         ` jimmaureenrogers
2005-09-05 22:13           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  8:24             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 19:22         ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-09-05 21:54           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-05 22:50             ` Larry Kilgallen
2005-09-05 23:46               ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-12  3:59                 ` Dave Thompson
2005-09-06 16:02             ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-06 21:00               ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  5:38         ` Pascal Obry
2005-09-05 21:48       ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  5:25         ` tmoran
2005-09-06 14:58           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06  9:26         ` Georg Bauhaus
2005-09-06 15:00           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-07 11:02             ` Thierry Pirot
2005-09-07 20:09               ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06 13:22         ` Bob Spooner [this message]
2005-09-06 15:30           ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-06 16:12             ` Jeffrey Carter
2005-09-06 21:21               ` Robert A Duff
2005-09-02 20:19     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2005-09-03 12:51     ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2005-09-03 14:08       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-05  8:34         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-05  9:32           ` Arrays indexed by fixed point types (Was: Surprise in array concatenation) Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-05 11:07             ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2005-09-05 15:12               ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2005-09-05 12:14             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 13:07               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2005-09-05 15:10                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2005-09-05 11:29           ` Surprise in array concatenation Dr. Adrian Wrigley
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