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From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake)
Date: 1997/09/05
Date: 1997-09-05T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.873459669@merv> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 340C6785.9F0@pseserv3.fw.hac.com


Wes says

<<Yes, if a product (Beta, Edsel, whatever) is not what people want,
then you can certainly argue that it's not superior.  But when a
product is _exactly_ what they claim to want, yet they won't buy
it, what can you do then?>>


listen harder!!

This must mean that they have some requirements that they are not
articulating clearly. For example, they prefer software written by
a big company like Microsoft, or they feel more comfortable using
tools that everyone else uses. These are requirements that are
just as important to people as simply looking at technical aspects.

Why do people pay Bayer large amounts of money for simple
chemicals that are available much cheaper from others -- well
they feel more comfortable that they are really getting what
they want with the Bayer name behind it, and of course Bayer
spends large amounts of money convincing people that they feel
this way (which does not necessarily mean that it is in an
inappropriate attitude).

Yes, it's sometimes frustrating that customers seem to make "illogical"
decisions. We often see people using Ada technologies that purely in
technical terms seem clearly inferior to GNAT by any objective analysis.
But there are many reasons for this. Often it is simply a matter of
personal relationships, if you have dealt with person X for a long
time, and trust them, and they have not let you down in the past, then
it's not at all unreasonable to depend more on that trust than on the
current technical state of tools.

Being in business is all about understanding how all these factors work
together and understanding not just the technical needs of customers,
but their complete set of requirements, and identifying the cases where
you can meet that complete set of requirements. We often end up 
suggesting people look at some other Ada technology if we feel that,
considering all the requirements in this general sense, the customer
might be better off with some non-GNAT solution. Of course, being a
service and support company, rather than a "heres-the-shrink-wrapped-
software-take-it-and-pay-for-it" business, we probably work harder to
make sure that we *do* meet all the needs of customers, since we need
them to feel they are getting value for their support contracts!

Anyway, as I say, I understand the frustration, many projects that could
be more successful if written in Ada are not, and those of us who know
that spend a lot of time asking ourselves how that can be fixed. Well
the answer is that it cannot be fixed generally, and the important thing
is to concentrate on an incremental approach, where you make sure that
current use of Ada *is* successful, and rather gradually increase the
awareness of these successes. I don't see any other approach that will
work!

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies





  reply	other threads:[~1997-09-05  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-08-29  0:00 The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake) Ell
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-29  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00   ` Jay Martin
1997-08-30  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00     ` Jay Martin
1997-08-30  0:00   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-01  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-01  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-09-03  0:00         ` Robert Munck
1997-09-05  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Jeff Kotula
1997-09-02  0:00       ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-08  0:00       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-09-13  0:00         ` Mark S. Hathaway
1997-09-16  0:00           ` Des  Kenny
1997-10-28  0:00           ` John English
1997-09-16  0:00         ` Des  Kenny
1997-09-16  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00     ` Darren New
1997-09-02  0:00   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00     ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1997-09-05  0:00       ` happens too often to call it historic W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-15  0:00   ` The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake) Tim Ottinger
1997-09-16  0:00     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-18  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
1997-09-16  0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Robert B. Love 
1997-09-17  0:00 Ell
1997-09-15  0:00 Ell
1997-09-16  0:00 ` Tim Ottinger
1997-09-17  0:00 ` Doc
     [not found] <97090916235363@psavax.pwfl.com>
1997-09-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-04  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-08-30  0:00 BruceMount
1997-08-29  0:00 Ell
     [not found] <5tvvsj$lh2$1@news2.digex.net>
1997-08-27  0:00 ` Jeff Brown
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-27  0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-27  0:00   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00 ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00     ` James P. White
1997-08-29  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-29  0:00     ` Dennis Weldy
1997-08-29  0:00     ` Brett J. Stonier
     [not found]     ` <5u6ovi$5kb$1@news2.digex.net>
1997-09-01  0:00       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-25  0:00 Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-26  0:00 ` BruceMount
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Brett J. Stonier
     [not found]     ` <JSA.97Aug28182029@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]       ` <3406C150.3EE5EE0E@stratasys.com>
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-15  0:00       ` Tim Ottinger
     [not found]   ` <5u0nil$atg@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-08-28  0:00     ` not
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
     [not found]       ` <5u3o1n$hu5@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
1997-08-28  0:00         ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-15  0:00       ` Tim Ottinger
1997-09-16  0:00         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-26  0:00 ` Flavius.Vespasianus
     [not found] ` <JSA.97Aug26153546@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]   ` <34034658.7DE14518@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-27  0:00 ` James P. White
     [not found]   ` <34047A7D.62319AC4@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00     ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-27  0:00       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-08-28  0:00         ` Flavius.Vespasianus
1997-08-28  0:00       ` James P. White
1997-08-28  0:00       ` Mike Coffin
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-30  0:00           ` James P. White
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Dennis Weldy
1997-09-03  0:00         ` Charles Ditzel
1997-08-27  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]   ` <01bcb38a$8ddc1200$1c10d30a@ntwneil>
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-28  0:00       ` James P. White
1997-08-30  0:00         ` Bert Bril
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Lee Webber
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Mike Charlton
     [not found]         ` <N.19970829.uput@sisyphus.demon.co.uk>
1997-09-02  0:00           ` Mike Charlton
1997-09-03  0:00             ` Dave Sparks
     [not found]       ` <EFn8CI.D9p@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Arthur Nelson
1997-08-29  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-01  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Laurent Guerby
     [not found]           ` <EFonoz.AFC@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-30  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-31  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-02  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-06  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00         ` Peter Hermann
1997-08-28  0:00     ` James P. White
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Lee Webber
     [not found] ` <3402FD4D.C196785B@brightwood.com>
1997-08-27  0:00   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Brett J. Stonier
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Jeff Brown
1997-08-28  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00       ` Paul Johnson
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