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From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: Design By Contract
Date: 1997/08/28
Date: 1997-08-28T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.872792185@merv> (raw)
In-Reply-To: EFM140.Fy9@syd.csa.com.au


Don says

<<  - Simplicity which enables developers to focus on designing rather than
    trying to remember language rules. A simplistic macroscopic comparison
    of Eiffel and Ada based on the number of validity rules suggests that
    Eiffel is about 50 times simpler than Ada.>>


Simplicity is a very slippery term, what do you mean:

Simplicity of the description
Simplicity of format definition
Simplicity of programming applications
Simplicity of implementation

These are nowhere *near* the same thing. For example, let's compare the
floating-point rules in C and Ada. Gosh, C is FAR simpler, look at all
those rules in annex G in Ada, not to mention the basic stuff in chapter
3. None of that nonsense in C, C is much simpler.

But suppose the task is: write portable numerical codes. Oops, now we are
in big trouble in C, and the task is far *more* complex, because now we
have no guarantees from the language, and either the task is impossible,
or involves all kinds of complex external configuration control.

It is helpful whenever you use the word simple or complex to say exactly
what domain you are talking about. I see all the time people playing the
game where they argue simplicitly in one of these domains, implicitly
appealing to people's agreement that simplicity in another domain is crucial.





  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-08-28  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 106+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-08-21  0:00 Critique of Ariane 5 paper (finally!) aek
     [not found] ` <33FC66AD.9A0799D4@calfp.co.uk>
1997-08-22  0:00   ` Robert S. White
1997-08-22  0:00     ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-22  0:00       ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-23  0:00     ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]   ` <33FFA4B1.3543@flash.net>
1997-08-26  0:00     ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]       ` <3403940F.4154@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
     [not found]         ` <349224633wnr@eiffel.demon.co.uk>
1997-08-27  0:00           ` Design by Contract Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-27  0:00         ` Design By Contract Ted Velkoff
     [not found]           ` <5u3c6v$gtf$2@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
     [not found]             ` <34058808.3BF@pseserv3.fw.hac.com>
1997-08-28  0:00               ` Darren New
1997-08-28  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-06  0:00                 ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]           ` <JSA.97Aug27180328@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-28  0:00             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-03  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-03  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-04  0:00                 ` Don Harrison
     [not found]         ` <EFM140.Fy9@syd.csa.com.au>
1997-08-28  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-29  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                 ` <EFqE8L.4Eq@ecf.toronto.edu>
     [not found]                   ` <JSA.97Aug30145058@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-09-01  0:00                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-02  0:00                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-02  0:00                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-02  0:00                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                     ` <JSA.97Sep3201329@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-09-04  0:00                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-05  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                         ` <5un58u$9ih$1@gonzo.sun3.iaf.nl>
1997-09-06  0:00                           ` Building blocks (Was: Design By Contract) Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-08  0:00                           ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-08  0:00                             ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-09  0:00                               ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-09  0:00                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                               ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-09  0:00                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                                 ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-09  0:00                                 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                   ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-12  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-14  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-15  0:00                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-14  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-14  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-12  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-09-10  0:00                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-10  0:00                                   ` Darren New
1997-09-10  0:00                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-08  0:00                         ` Design By Contract Nick Leaton
1997-09-08  0:00                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-09  0:00                           ` Paul Johnson
     [not found]                       ` <EFzLn7.481@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                       ` <EFz0pD.E6n@syd.csa.com.au>
1997-09-05  0:00                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00                         ` subjectivity W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00                           ` subjectivity Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                             ` subjectivity Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                               ` subjectivity Jon S Anthony
1997-09-16  0:00                                 ` subjectivity Don Harrison
1997-09-16  0:00                                   ` subjectivity Jon S Anthony
1997-09-10  0:00                           ` subjectivity Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                             ` subjectivity W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-11  0:00                               ` subjectivity Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                             ` subjectivity W. Wesley Groleau x4923
     [not found]                         ` <JSA.97Sep4172912@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                           ` <EG0oz8.F6M@syd.csa.com.au>
     [not found]                             ` <EG0rp7.GtL@syd.csa.com.au>
1997-09-05  0:00                               ` Design By Contract Matthew Heaney
1997-09-05  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00                               ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-08  0:00                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-09  0:00                                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-10  0:00                                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-06  0:00                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-09-09  0:00                             ` Matthew Heaney
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-29  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                 ` <EFqDw0.3x7@ecf.toronto.edu>
     [not found]                   ` <JSA.97Aug30145354@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-09-01  0:00                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00           ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1997-08-29  0:00             ` Don Harrison
     [not found]       ` <3406BEF7.2FC3@flash.net>
     [not found]         ` <3406E0F7.6FF7ED99@calfp.co.uk>
1997-09-02  0:00           ` Critique of Ariane 5 paper (finally!) Ken Garlington
     [not found] <5u1627$1fak@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
     [not found] ` <EFM1Lx.GD2@syd.csa.com.au>
1997-08-28  0:00   ` Design by Contract Robert Dewar
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-08-07  0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00         ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-18  0:00           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                   ` <JSA.97Aug25181856@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                     ` <34023A1F.41C67EA6@eiffel.com>
1997-08-25  0:00                       ` Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                       ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                         ` <JSA.97Aug26151833@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-25  0:00                       ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-25  0:00                         ` Steve Stringfellow
1997-08-26  0:00                         ` Don Harrison
1997-08-25  0:00                       ` Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                         ` <3402d123.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
1997-08-26  0:00                           ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                             ` <3402e51d.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                               ` <3402E8C9.3384D976@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                                 ` <dewar.872631036@merv>
1997-08-27  0:00                                   ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-27  0:00                                   ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
     [not found]                                   ` <34050F3C.5A3A@invest.amp.com.au>
1997-08-28  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-29  0:00                                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-31  0:00                                         ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-01  0:00                                           ` John F. Bell III
1997-09-02  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-05  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                         ` <dewar.872887402@merv>
1997-09-02  0:00                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-03  0:00                                             ` Thomas Beale
     [not found]                                               ` <EFxx8q.2sw@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                                 ` Thomas Beale
1997-09-05  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]                             ` <340306E1.5FB64D70@XYZZYcalfp.com>
1997-08-28  0:00                               ` Mark Bennison
     [not found]                         ` <bengtk-2708972209500001@sl35.modempool.kth.se>
1997-08-28  0:00                           ` Nick Leaton
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