From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract
Date: 1997/03/26
Date: 1997-03-26T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.859383570@merv> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3336D167.6BFC@lmtas.lmco.com
Ken Garlington said
<<I am totally confused now. The Ariane V incident could only have been
prevented by a language that has Eiffel-like constructs, but it wasn't
the language's fault?>>
No one said anything completely silly like that! Ken you are putting words
into someone else's mouth. The most that has been said is something like
"systematic use of xxxx would have prevented the Ariane V incident"
That is a statement that is highly NON-contentious, since it is true for
almost all possible xxxx including
"common sense".
The trouble is that when people start replacing xxxx with specific language
features, it is only to easy to read the statement as saying that the
particular choice of xxxx is somehow the only one or at least a key one.
I have no problem with the statement above with "Eiffel assertions" or
"Programming by Contract" inserted for the xxxx, but the suggestion that
only these approaches would be appropriate, or even that in this case they
have some special advantage would be respectively absurd or dubious. The
first allegation simply has not been made in this thread. Some people have
made the second, and I find the argument dubious. The Ariane V goof is not
a particularly instructive one from a language or methodology point of view.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-03-26 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 254+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1997-03-15 0:00 Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Chris Brand
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
[not found] ` <tz8ohcjv7cc.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-16 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was " Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Irvine
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] ` <199703190839.JAA02652@stormbringer.irisa.fr>
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Roger T.
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Wolfgang Gellerich
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John L. Ahrens
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Trust but verify " Robert S. White
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-07 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
[not found] ` <tz8913l930b.fsf_-_@aimnet.com>
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Gavin Collings
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war Roedy Green
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Kent Tong
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Ranan Fraer
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
[not found] ` <tz8g1xtzx9y.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Laurent Moussault
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Programming language fanaticism! Louis Bastarache
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Steve Furlong
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-27 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Nick S Bensema
1997-03-30 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-21 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-23 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-24 0:00 ` FUD (Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Alexander Anderson
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Anders Pytte
[not found] ` <3335BC24.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-01 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` John Hogg
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] ` <E7ox17.MKx@syd.csa.com.au>
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-18 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Jan Galkowski
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-04-02 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Jonathan Egre'
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-04-01 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-04-02 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John the Hamster
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-18 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ray McVay
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-30 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Doctorb
1997-04-08 0:00 ` Ron Crocker
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Enrico Facchin - Sartori E.T.
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-17 0:00 ` John McCabe
[not found] ` <tz8n2s1hrdc.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Niall Cooling
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-07 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-09 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Chris Beer
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Robin Rosenberg
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Thomas Beale
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-21 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng
1997-03-23 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Eric M. Boyd
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
[not found] ` <3345cd60.2092398@news.sydney.apana.org.au>
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Ariane-5 crash , Eiffel and Ada Nick Leaton
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
1997-04-08 0:00 ` AdaWorks
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Tarjei Jensen
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ulrich Windl
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ron Forrester
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Ron Forrester
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Design by Contract in C++ (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Anders Pytte
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Nick Leaton
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Nick Leaton
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Nick Leaton
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was " Jon S Anthony
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-23 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ulrich Windl
[not found] ` <tz8sp1qiywm.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-21 0:00 ` ae59
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Stuart Yeates
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Dale Stanbrough
[not found] ` <3335E18E.33590565@eiffel.com>
1997-03-23 0:00 ` FUD (Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` William Grosso
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Brad Appleton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert Dewar
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Manners (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-25 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Steve Furlong
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Simulating Eiffel-style assertions (was: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-29 0:00 ` How old time languages survive EJon
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) William Clodius
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Ken Garlington
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Nick Leaton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Ken Garlington
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-25 0:00 ` David Starr
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Trust but verify (was " Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Trust but verify (was " Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-03-17 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-20 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-03-24 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-27 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-04-03 0:00 Adrian B.Y. Hoe
1997-04-05 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
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