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From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: Leading zeros with Int_IO.Put()? Or another package?
Date: 1996/11/19
Date: 1996-11-19T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.848400839@merv> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 56rgou$r4k$1@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au


robin said

"No excuse for having everyone who wants to use such a facility
to have to write it."

Ah, yes, the design principle that PL1 made famous, or rather infamous.
If something is useful, pop it in, after all, you don't have to use it
if you don't want to. 

Part of the trouble with this philosophy, which is characteristic of
committee designed languages (unlike Ada, PL/1 was very much a committee
designed language, trying to meet the requirements of many dissimilar
constituencies), is that it is quite difficult to get implementations
to handle simple cases efficiently. PL/1 was, compared to IBM's expectations,
a dismal failure, and in particular, the very public abandonment of PL/1
by early adopters, notably Sears, was not so much a reaction to the language,
which is, as I have noted before, not as bad as people think, but rather
a reaction to the implementation quality.

Now it is true that part of the implementation problems were due to what
is now generally perceived as fundamental mistakes in the PL/1 design
(e.g. far too many implicit conversions permitted), but they were much
more due to simple size and complexity. Of course over time, the compilers
did improve, but too late to avoid the initial bad publicity.

Acceptance of languages is always based as much on initial implementations
as it is on the language itself. Algol-68 was quite successful in the
few environments in which decent compilers were available (notably the
Algol68-R compiler on ICL machines in the UK), but in most environments,
no decent compilers were available.

Certainly you can see a parallel in the Ada world, there is no question
that the acceptance of ada 83 was influenced by the quality and
availability of compilers early on, and even today you see people making
unfounded statements about Ada the *language*, based on their early
experience with Ada *compilers*.






  reply	other threads:[~1996-11-19  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-11-05  0:00 Leading zeros with Int_IO.Put()? Or another package? J.D. Baldwin
1996-11-05  0:00 ` Samuel Tardieu
1996-11-05  0:00 ` David Shochat
1996-11-08  0:00   ` robin
1996-11-08  0:00     ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-08  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-10  0:00       ` Verne Arase
1996-11-13  0:00       ` robin
1996-11-13  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-19  0:00           ` robin
1996-11-19  0:00             ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1996-11-20  0:00             ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-20  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-20  0:00               ` robin
1996-11-20  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-22  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-25  0:00                   ` shmuel
1996-11-20  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-22  0:00                   ` robin
1996-11-22  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-23  0:00                       ` robin
1996-11-20  0:00                 ` Larry J. Elmore
1996-11-25  0:00                   ` robin
1996-11-25  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-26  0:00                     ` Larry J. Elmore
1996-11-21  0:00                 ` Jerry Coffin
1996-11-22  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-20  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-22  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-27  0:00               ` Verne Arase
1996-12-02  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]             ` <56tjrh$4a <MPLANET.3294c204jcoffin989a3e@news.rmi.net>
1996-11-24  0:00               ` Bert
1996-11-13  0:00       ` robin
1996-11-13  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-19  0:00           ` robin
1996-11-22  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-22  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-17  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-21  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-22  0:00     ` robin
1996-11-06  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-08  0:00   ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-06  0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-07  0:00   ` Pascal Obry
1996-11-07  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-08  0:00   ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-09  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-06  0:00 ` Stephen Leake
1996-11-08  0:00 ` David Emery
1996-11-24  0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-11-24  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-25  0:00     ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-25  0:00     ` J. David Bryan
1996-11-27  0:00     ` Verne Arase
1996-11-28  0:00   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-12-15  0:00 Robert Dewar
1996-11-05  0:00 Collection of 2500+ links about Object-Orientation - interested ? Manfred Schneider
1996-11-07  0:00 ` Leading zeros with Int_IO.Put()? Or another package? John Herro
1996-11-07  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-07  0:00   ` James Rogers
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