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From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: Ada and Automotive Industry
Date: 1996/11/15
Date: 1996-11-15T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.848071187@merv> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1996Nov8.183051.21638@ole.cdac.com


one more thought on 

   for i in 1 .. 10 loop

it is almost always a mistake in a programming language like Ada to
introduce shortcut notations that are supposedly helpful. In the short
run it may save a little bit of writing and make the language a little
easier to initially handle, but in the long run it causes confusion.

Another example in Ada is the

   x : array (1 .. 10) of ...

which again defaults to type Integer. Given that we generally accept
that it is a bad idea for programs to use the built in Integer type,
it is quite inappropriate to have this kind of default. Typing is
pretty central to Ada, and anyone who refuses to type things is
going to be unhappy, an their unhappeiness will not be assuaged by
kludges of this type.

With respect to the array notation, it is ALWAYS a bad idea to take
advantage of this. If for some reason you want type Integer say so:

   x : array (Integer range 1 .. 10) of ..

This will immediately draw attention to the fact that you are introducing
the use of a potentially implementation dependent type into your code.

For an example from another language of similar thinking, consider Algol-68.
The notion of references and the unification of variables and poitners are
central to the design of this language (some love it, some hate it, but that
is a different story).

The point is that you cannot write in Algol-68 without a clear understanding
of the reference concept.

This means that an ordinary integer variable is in fact of "reference to
integer" type (ref int in algolese).

Consequently, one would expect that the normal way of declaring an
uninitialized variable would be

    ref int x;

but in a fit of trying to be more accomodating to people used to Pascal
or Algol or Fortran or gosh-knows-what, the Algol-68 design uses the
shorthand

    int x;

to declare x as a variable of type ref int. This saves a bit of ink, and
makes the program superficailly more similar to other familiar languages,
but in the long run, it causes huge confusion and was a mistake!

Trying to make language X friendly to foreign syntactic and semantic
thinking imported from language Y is a risky occupation

(substitute X = C++ and Y = C for a more familiar example,
 or X = JAVA and Y = C++)





  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-11-15  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-11-01  0:00 Ada and Automotive Industry ETHoierman
1996-11-05  0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
1996-11-06  0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
1996-11-06  0:00   ` James Thiele
1996-11-06  0:00     ` Stanley R. Allen
1996-11-07  0:00       ` Dale Stanbrough
1996-11-11  0:00       ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-11  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-11  0:00         ` Matthew Heaney
1996-11-11  0:00           ` Philip Brashear
1996-11-07  0:00     ` Frank Manning
1996-11-11  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-11  0:00     ` Frank Manning
1996-11-13  0:00       ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-13  0:00       ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-14  0:00         ` Jack Patteeuw
1996-11-16  0:00           ` David Taylor
1996-11-20  0:00             ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-21  0:00               ` Dave Wood
1996-11-21  0:00             ` Art Schwarz
1996-11-22  0:00               ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-22  0:00               ` Robert B. Love 
1996-11-24  0:00               ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1996-11-18  0:00           ` David Taylor
1996-11-17  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-18  0:00           ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-22  0:00             ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-23  0:00               ` James Thiele
1996-11-27  0:00                 ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-22  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-05  0:00             ` Michael Warner
1996-11-20  0:00           ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-23  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-25  0:00               ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-27  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-01  0:00                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-11-27  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-29  0:00                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-12-02  0:00                   ` Chris Hills
1996-12-04  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-27  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-25  0:00               ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-24  0:00             ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-25  0:00               ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-26  0:00                 ` John Dammeyer
1996-11-26  0:00                   ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-25  0:00               ` Richard Riehle
     [not found]           ` <Pine.GSO.3.95.961120154239.3 <Pine.GSO.3.95.961201100430.21598A-100000@nunic.nu.edu>
1996-12-01  0:00             ` James Thiele
1996-11-27  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-03  0:00           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-12-03  0:00             ` Ted Dennison
1996-12-11  0:00             ` Richard Riehle
1996-12-13  0:00               ` Ted Dennison
1996-11-14  0:00     ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-15  0:00       ` William P. Milam
1996-11-08  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-08  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-08  0:00     ` James Thiele
1996-11-08  0:00       ` nasser
1996-11-09  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-22  0:00           ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-11-10  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-11-11  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-11  0:00           ` James Thiele
1996-11-12  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-12  0:00       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-12  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-13  0:00           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-14  0:00         ` William P. Milam
1996-11-19  0:00           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-11-15  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-15  0:00       ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1996-11-16  0:00         ` Geert Bosch
1996-11-21  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-16  0:00         ` Adam Beneschan
1996-11-22  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-11  0:00     ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-11  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-11-11  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]   ` <847341612snz@transcontech.co.uk>
1996-11-10  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-12  0:00       ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1996-11-15  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-15  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-18  0:00       ` Ken Tindell
1996-11-18  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-19  0:00         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-12-05  0:00         ` Michael Warner
1996-12-06  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-15  0:00     ` John Howard
1996-11-15  0:00     ` William P. Milam
1996-11-21  0:00     ` James Weaver
1996-11-21  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-22  0:00   ` Chris Hills
1996-11-22  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-23  0:00   ` Ralph Paul
1996-11-24  0:00   ` Otto Lind
1996-11-25  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-28  0:00       ` Eyal Ben-Avraham
1996-11-29  0:00         ` Richard Kenner
1996-11-25  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-26  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-26  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-27  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-27  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-01  0:00   ` Chris Hills
1996-12-01  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-01  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-02  0:00     ` Robert A Duff
1996-12-02  0:00   ` Chris Hills
1996-12-03  0:00     ` Andy Ashworth
1996-12-03  0:00       ` Ian Ward
1996-12-03  0:00   ` George Romanski
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Ken Tindell
1996-12-03  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1996-12-03  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-11  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-13  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1996-12-13  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-14  0:00   ` Chris Hills
1996-12-19  0:00     ` Ian Ward
1996-12-17  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-18  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-19  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-11-11  0:00 James Thiele
1996-11-12  0:00 James Thiele
1996-11-13  0:00 ` Frank Manning
1996-11-13  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-15  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-13  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-12  0:00 James Thiele
1996-11-13  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-11-13  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-24  0:00 Ingemar Persson
1996-11-25  0:00 Ada and automotive industry W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1996-11-27  0:00 Ada and Automotive Industry W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
     [not found] <1996Dec2.221233.523@decus.org.nz>
1996-12-02  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
     [not found] <1996Nov30.130532.522@decus.org.nz>
1996-12-02  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-05  0:00 Franco Mazzanti
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-11  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-13  0:00   ` Ted Dennison
1996-12-15  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-17  0:00       ` Tucker Taft
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Geert Bosch
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Robert A Duff
1996-12-18  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-18  0:00           ` Robert A Duff
1996-12-18  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-19  0:00               ` Robert A Duff
1996-12-20  0:00                 ` Philip Brashear
1996-12-20  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-22  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-23  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Keith Thompson
1996-12-18  0:00         ` Keith Thompson
1996-12-17  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-10  0:00 Franco Mazzanti
1996-12-11  0:00 Franco Mazzanti
1996-12-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-13  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
     [not found] <1996Dec11.220521.525@decus.org.nz>
1996-12-11  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-12-13  0:00 Franco Mazzanti
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