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From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: Ariane 5 failure
Date: 1996/10/15
Date: 1996-10-15T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.845388544@merv> (raw)
In-Reply-To: mheaney-ya023180001410962319550001@news.ni.net


Matthew says

"Believe me, I would love to write a software system that I knew were
(formally) correct and didn't require run-time checks.  But I am not able
to build that system today.  So what should I do?"


First of all, I would object to the "formally" and even the word "corect"
here. These are technical terms which relate to, but are not identical with,
the impoortant concept which is reliability.

It *is* possible to write reliable programs, though it is expensive. If you
need to do this, and are not able to do it, then the answer is to investigate
the tools that make this possible, and understand the necessary investment
(which is alarmingly high). Some of these tools are related to correctness,
but that's not the main focus. There are reliable incorect programs and
correct unreliable programs, and what we are interested in is reliability.

For an example of toolsets that help achieve this aim, take a look at the
Praxis tools. There are many other examples of methodologies and tools that
can be used to achieve high reliability. 

Now of course informally we would like to make all programs realiable, but
there is a cost/benefit trade off. For most non-safety critical programming
(but not all), it is simply not cost effective to demand total reliability.





  reply	other threads:[~1996-10-15  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-10-01  0:00 Ariane 5 failure Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-02  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-04  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-05  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-06  0:00       ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-08  0:00       ` Bullet-Proof or Bullet-Resistant (Was Ariane 5 failure) Alan Brain
1996-10-10  0:00       ` Ariane 5 failure Ken Garlington
1996-10-14  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-15  0:00         ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1996-10-16  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-18  0:00           ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-18  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-18  0:00             ` Samuel T. Harris
1996-10-21  0:00               ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-23  0:00           ` robin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-10-31  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-28  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-29  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-08  0:00   ` robin
1996-10-28  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-22  0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-10-16  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-18  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-19  0:00   ` Frank Manning
1996-10-21  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-14  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-15  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-15  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00     ` Michael F Brenner
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-23  0:00 ` robin
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-01  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-10-02  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02  0:00     ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Robert S. White
1996-10-05  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-05  0:00         ` Alan Brain
1996-10-06  0:00           ` Robert S. White
1996-10-03  0:00     ` Alan Brain
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
     [not found] <agrapsDy4oJH.29G@netcom.com>
1996-09-25  0:00 ` @@           robin
1996-09-25  0:00   ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-09-25  0:00     ` Chris Morgan
1996-09-25  0:00     ` Byron Kauffman
1996-09-25  0:00       ` A. Grant
1996-09-25  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-26  0:00         ` Byron Kauffman
1996-09-27  0:00           ` A. Grant
1996-09-26  0:00         ` Sandy McPherson
1996-09-25  0:00   ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-09-26  0:00     ` Ronald Kunne
1996-09-26  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-09-27  0:00         ` Ronald Kunne
1996-09-27  0:00           ` Lawrence Foard
1996-10-04  0:00             ` @@           robin
1996-09-28  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-28  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-29  0:00           ` Alan Brain
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Robert A Duff
1996-09-30  0:00               ` Wayne L. Beavers
1996-10-01  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01  0:00                   ` Wayne L. Beavers
1996-10-01  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02  0:00                       ` Sandy McPherson
1996-10-03  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-10-01  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00         ` Wayne Hayes
1996-09-27  0:00           ` Richard Pattis
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Chris McKnight
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Alan Brain
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Dann Corbit
1996-10-01  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-28  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00       ` Alan Brain
1996-09-28  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-29  0:00       ` Louis K. Scheffer
1996-09-27  0:00   ` John McCabe
1996-10-01  0:00     ` Michael Dworetsky
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Steve Bell
1996-10-07  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-09  0:00         ` @@           robin
1996-10-09  0:00           ` Steve O'Neill
1996-10-12  0:00             ` Alan Brain
1996-10-04  0:00     ` @@           robin
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-10-09  0:00         ` @@           robin
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Joseph C Williams
1996-10-06  0:00         ` Wayne Hayes
1996-10-17  0:00       ` Ralf Tilch
1996-10-17  0:00         ` Ravi Sundaram
1996-10-22  0:00           ` shmuel
1996-10-22  0:00             ` Jim Carr
1996-10-24  0:00               ` hayim
1996-10-25  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-25  0:00                 ` Michel OLAGNON
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