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From: dewar@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: Teaching sorts [was Re: What's the best language to start with?]
Date: 1996/08/19
Date: 1996-08-19T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.840493975@schonberg> (raw)
In-Reply-To: dewar.840491732@schonberg


(slightly corrected version, I noticed a minor typo in the first version,
which I canceled).

Richard O'Keefe says

        void insertion_sort(elt *a, int n) {
            int i, j;

            /* invariant: a[0..i-1] is a sorted permutation of old a[0..i-1] */
            for (i = 1; i < N; i++) {
                elt const t = a[i];
                for (j = i; j > 0 && t < a[j-1]; j--)
                    a[j] = a[j-1];
                a[j] = t;
            }
        }

   If a is already sorted, this does N-1 comparisons, which is optimal.
   I don't see any need for extreme care here.

Well the extreme here is your word not mine, I simply said "very careful".
In fact the critical thing to preserve the number of compares is to run
the inner loop backwards. That comes naturally in C, but not in Ada,
where the preferable code is to find the insertion point and then do a
slice assignment to shuffle the data (the slice assignment is not only
at a preferable higher level, but with a good optimizing compiler has
the potential of generating much more efficient code on some architectures
than the individual moves.

So, you ran the inner loop backwards and indeed got the number of
compares right, but you still have the overhead of both loops testing
the termination condition, whereas a bubble sort written in the normal
manner will have only one loop, and therefore execution only half the
number of loop termination tests, that's what I meant by extra overhead
even if you are careful to ensure no extra comparisons.

I find Hillam's initial bubble sort algorithm curious. I certainly don't
call this bubble sort. To me you repeat the outer loop only if you have
found that the inner loop made at least one exchange. Well anyone can
call any algorithm by any name, *I* use the word bubble sort to include
the notation of early termination of the outer loop if no exchanges have
been made in the inner loop. To avoid too much overhead in setting this
flag, it is useful to use the PC to encode the binary state of this flag.

The modified bubble sort from Hillam has two "optimizations" compared to
his original. First he uses the flag SORTED in the manner I suggest above,
but encoding this as a boolean flag is inefficient, since it keeps getting
set, better to encode it in the program counter, then the cost of setting
it is almost free (one extra jump, executed once per inner loop).

The second is the IN_PLACE optimization, which is reasonable, and helps
sometimes, but is not necessary for the point of view of this discussion.

  "Now the funny thing here is that Robert Dewar wrote
  >you will almost certainly find you require more overhead
  [for insertion sort than bubble sort]
  >because of the two nested loops.
  But both versions of bubble sort have two nested loops as well!"

You missed the point. In the bubble sort, the outer loop is executed only
once for a sorted list. For your insertion sort, the outer loop runs a full
number of times. Your insertion sort has 2*N loop termination tests, while
a properly written bubble sort has N loop termination tests.

I do not know any way to write the insertion sort so that it has only N
loop termination tests, certainly your example has 2*N tests.

Here is a simple example of bubble sort the way I would code it

   procedure Sort (N : Positive; Exch : Exch_Procedure; Lt : Lt_Function) is
      Switched : Boolean;
   begin
      loop
         Switched := False;

         for J in 1 .. N - 1 loop
            if Lt (J + 1, J) then
               Exch (J, J + 1);
               Switched := True;
            end if;
         end loop;

         exit when not Switched;
      end loop;
   end Sort;

I do not seem to count five variables here! More like two, one of which
is a loop control constant. True, it uses an exit, but I find the attempt
to eliminate this to read to less readable, not more readable code (I judge
code by its readability, not by whether it satisfies someone's idea of what
structured code should be :-)

Now this uses a flag to encode the switch. If we want to encode this switch
in the PC, which is more efficient, but a little less clear:

   procedure Sort (N : Positive; Move : Move_Procedure; Lt : Lt_Function) is
   begin
      for J in 1 .. N - 1 loop
         if Lt (J + 1, J) then
            Exch (J, J + 1);

            for K in J + 1 .. N - 1 loop
               if Lt (K + 1, K) then
                  Exch (K, K + 1);
               end if;
            end loop;

            Sort (N, Move, Lt);
         end if;
      end loop;
   end Sort;

If you don't trust your compiler to eliminate the tail recursion, then
you probabably should replace the recursive call with a goto!





  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-08-19  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 688+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <sperlman-0507961717550001@p121.ezo.net>
     [not found] ` <4rs76l$aqd@ccshst05.uoguelph.ca>
1996-07-15  0:00   ` Should I learn C or Pascal? Ralph Silverman
1996-07-15  0:00     ` Steve Sobol
1996-07-16  0:00     ` Lee Crites
1996-07-17  0:00       ` David Verschoore
1996-07-17  0:00         ` Mark McKinney
1996-07-19  0:00           ` Philip Brashear
1996-07-23  0:00             ` John A Hughes
1996-07-26  0:00               ` Randy Kaelber
1996-07-29  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-08-06  0:00                 ` StHeller
1996-07-17  0:00         ` Anthony Kanner
1996-07-20  0:00         ` TRAN PHAN ANH
1996-07-20  0:00           ` Mark Eissler
1996-07-25  0:00             ` Erik Seaberg
1996-07-26  0:00             ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-27  0:00               ` Rick Elbers
1996-07-28  0:00                 ` J. Christian Blanchette
1996-07-28  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-29  0:00                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-30  0:00                     ` Arra Avakian
1996-07-31  0:00                       ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-31  0:00                       ` James Youngman
1996-08-02  0:00                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-05  0:00                         ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-06  0:00                           ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-05  0:00                         ` Fergus Henderson
1996-08-06  0:00                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-06  0:00                             ` Dan Pop
1996-08-06  0:00                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-06  0:00                                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-07  0:00                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-07  0:00                                     ` James A. Squire
1996-08-07  0:00                                     ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-08  0:00                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-08  0:00                                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-08  0:00                                     ` David Weller
1996-08-09  0:00                                     ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-10  0:00                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-11  0:00                                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-11  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-12  0:00                                             ` Alf P. Steinbach
1996-08-12  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-13  0:00                                             ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-11  0:00                                         ` Craig Franck
1996-08-11  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-07  0:00                                 ` Mark Eissler
     [not found]                               ` <01bb83cc$fb <tequila-0708960947140001@tequila.interlog.com>
1996-08-07  0:00                                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-06  0:00                             ` Fergus Henderson
1996-08-07  0:00                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-08  0:00                                 ` Thomas Hood
1996-08-09  0:00                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-17  0:00                                 ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-17  0:00                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-19  0:00                                     ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-19  0:00                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-19  0:00                                         ` Tim Hollebeek
1996-08-20  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-20  0:00                                         ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-21  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-22  0:00                                             ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-22  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-04  0:00                                             ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-09-04  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-06  0:00                                                 ` Bob Gilbert
1996-09-06  0:00                                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-09  0:00                                                     ` Bob Gilbert
1996-09-11  0:00                                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-10  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-11  0:00                                                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-10  0:00                                                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-10  0:00                                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
1996-09-11  0:00                                                     ` Bob Gilbert
1996-09-11  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-11  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-05  0:00                                               ` Mark Wooding
1996-09-06  0:00                                                 ` Bob Cousins
1996-09-06  0:00                                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-07  0:00                                                     ` Craig Franck
1996-09-08  0:00                                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-08  0:00                                                         ` Craig Franck
1996-09-09  0:00                                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-10  0:00                                                             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-10  0:00                                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-11  0:00                                                         ` John Burdick
1996-09-13  0:00                                                 ` Bengt Richter
1996-09-14  0:00                                                   ` Craig Franck
1996-09-06  0:00                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-09-06  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-11  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-11  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-11  0:00                                           ` Craig Franck
1996-09-11  0:00                                             ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-17  0:00                                           ` George
1996-09-24  0:00                                             ` Joel VanLaven
1996-09-27  0:00                                               ` Dann Corbit
1996-09-27  0:00                                               ` Tom Payne
1996-09-28  0:00                                                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-11  0:00                                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-11  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-12  0:00                                             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-13  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-13  0:00                                                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-18  0:00                                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-19  0:00                                                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-12  0:00                                             ` Peter Seebach
1996-09-18  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-17  0:00                                             ` George
1996-09-19  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-24  0:00                                                 ` Matthew M. Lih
1996-09-25  0:00                                                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-26  0:00                                                     ` Mark Wooding
1996-09-25  0:00                                                   ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1996-09-26  0:00                                                     ` Bengt Richter
1996-09-28  0:00                                                     ` Dan Pop
1996-09-26  0:00                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-26  0:00                                                 ` Dann Corbit
1996-09-27  0:00                                                 ` Craig Franck
1996-09-27  0:00                                                   ` Bob Cousins
1996-09-27  0:00                                                 ` Jay Martin
1996-09-27  0:00                                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-30  0:00                                                     ` Art Schwarz
1996-09-27  0:00                                                   ` Kent Budge
1996-09-27  0:00                                                     ` George Haddad
1996-09-27  0:00                                                       ` George Haddad
1996-09-27  0:00                                                     ` George Haddad
1996-09-28  0:00                                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-09-27  0:00                                                     ` George Haddad
1996-09-27  0:00                                                     ` George Haddad
1996-09-28  0:00                                                     ` Steve Heller
1996-10-01  0:00                                                       ` DJ Kindberg
1996-09-28  0:00                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-18  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-26  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-01  0:00                                           ` Andrew Gierth
1996-08-22  0:00                                     ` Bengt Richter
1996-08-22  0:00                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-23  0:00                                         ` Larry J. Elmore
1996-08-22  0:00                                       ` Frank Manning
1996-08-31  0:00                                         ` Bengt Richter
1996-08-31  0:00                                           ` Frank Manning
1996-08-31  0:00                                             ` Frank Manning
1996-09-02  0:00                                             ` deafen
1996-09-03  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-09-03  0:00                                               ` Phil Barnett
1996-09-03  0:00                                               ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-09-03  0:00                                               ` Steve Howard
1996-09-03  0:00                                               ` Frank Manning
1996-08-08  0:00                               ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
     [not found]                               ` <01bb846d$ <Dvtnon.I49@most.fw.hac.com>
1996-08-09  0:00                                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-09  0:00                               ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-09  0:00                                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-06  0:00                             ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-06  0:00                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-06  0:00                                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-07  0:00                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-07  0:00                                     ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-08  0:00                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-08  0:00                                         ` telnet user
1996-08-09  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-09  0:00                                           ` Ed Hook
1996-08-08  0:00                                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-08  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-08  0:00                                             ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-14  0:00                                             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-16  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-20  0:00                                                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-20  0:00                                                   ` Alan Bowler
1996-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-22  0:00                                                     ` Bengt Richter
1996-08-22  0:00                                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-31  0:00                                                         ` Bengt Richter
1996-09-01  0:00                                                           ` Maurice M. Carey IV
1996-08-26  0:00                                                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-26  0:00                                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-29  0:00                                                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-29  0:00                                                           ` Craig Franck
1996-08-30  0:00                                                           ` system
1996-08-31  0:00                                                             ` Kenneth Mays
     [not found]                                                           ` <01bb95ba$9dfed580$496700cf@ljelmore.montana>
1996-08-30  0:00                                                             ` Steve Heller
1996-08-31  0:00                                                             ` Clayton Weaver
1996-09-01  0:00                                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-26  0:00                                                       ` Mark Wooding
1996-08-30  0:00                                                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1996-08-30  0:00                                                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-30  0:00                                                           ` Peter Seebach
1996-09-03  0:00                                                             ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-09-01  0:00                                                           ` Joe Keane
1996-09-04  0:00                                                             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-03  0:00                                                           ` Arkady Belousov
1996-08-26  0:00                                                       ` madscientist
1996-08-29  0:00                                                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-31  0:00                                                       ` Tanmoy Bhattacharya
1996-09-04  0:00                                                         ` Tom Payne
1996-09-04  0:00                                                       ` Patrick Horgan
1996-09-05  0:00                                                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-05  0:00                                                           ` deafen
1996-08-09  0:00                                           ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-09  0:00                                         ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-09  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-10  0:00                                             ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-12  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-12  0:00                                                 ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-12  0:00                                                   ` Mark Wooding
1996-08-13  0:00                                                     ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-15  0:00                                                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-12  0:00                                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-13  0:00                                                     ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-13  0:00                                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-13  0:00                                                         ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-08-14  0:00                                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-15  0:00                                                         ` Mike Rubenstein
     [not found]                                                     ` <32 <01bb8923$e1d34280$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>
1996-08-14  0:00                                                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-14  0:00                                                         ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-14  0:00                                                           ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-12  0:00                                                 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-08-22  0:00                                                   ` Patrick Horgan
1996-08-23  0:00                                                     ` Steve Heller
1996-08-07  0:00                                     ` Dan Pop
1996-08-08  0:00                                       ` Christopher R Volpe
1996-08-08  0:00                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-08  0:00                                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-08  0:00                                           ` Randy Kaelber
1996-08-09  0:00                                           ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-10  0:00                                             ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-11  0:00                                               ` Dan Pop
1996-08-12  0:00                                                 ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-15  0:00                                                   ` Bob Hoffmann
1996-08-12  0:00                                                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-11  0:00                                               ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-09  0:00                                           ` J. Blustein
1996-08-11  0:00                                             ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-09  0:00                                         ` Dan Pop
1996-08-11  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-11  0:00                                             ` Dan Pop
1996-08-13  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-13  0:00                                                 ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-08-14  0:00                                                 ` Dan Pop
1996-08-14  0:00                                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-16  0:00                                                   ` Dik T. Winter
1996-08-12  0:00                                             ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-13  0:00                                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-11  0:00                                           ` Mark Wooding
1996-08-19  0:00                                             ` James Youngman
1996-08-18  0:00                                         ` Sam B. Siegel
1996-08-19  0:00                                           ` Dan Pop
1996-08-08  0:00                                     ` Teaching sorts [was Re: What's the best language to start with?] Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-09  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-10  0:00                                       ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-10  0:00                                       ` Al Aab
1996-08-12  0:00                                       ` Steve Heller
1996-08-12  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-16  0:00                                           ` Steve Heller
1996-08-16  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-18  0:00                                               ` Steve Heller
1996-08-18  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-18  0:00                                                   ` Steve Heller
1996-08-18  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-20  0:00                                                       ` Steve Heller
1996-08-16  0:00                                             ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-17  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-17  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-20  0:00                                                 ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-20  0:00                                                   ` Dann Corbit
1996-08-21  0:00                                                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-21  0:00                                                       ` Dann Corbit
1996-08-22  0:00                                                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-22  0:00                                                         ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-23  0:00                                                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-25  0:00                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Dik T. Winter
1996-08-21  0:00                                                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-21  0:00                                                       ` Matt Austern
1996-08-21  0:00                                                         ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-21  0:00                                                       ` Tanmoy Bhattacharya
1996-08-22  0:00                                                         ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-22  0:00                                                         ` Dann Corbit
1996-08-21  0:00                                                       ` Pete Becker
1996-08-22  0:00                                                         ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-22  0:00                                                           ` Pete Becker
1996-08-22  0:00                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-22  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-24  0:00                                                         ` Joe Keane
1996-08-22  0:00                                                     ` Tanmoy Bhattacharya
1996-08-21  0:00                                                 ` Tanmoy Bhattacharya
1996-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-22  0:00                                                     ` Christian Bau
1996-08-22  0:00                                                       ` (topic change on) Teaching sorts Marcus H. Mendenhall
1996-08-27  0:00                                                         ` Ralph Silverman
1996-08-22  0:00                                                       ` Teaching sorts [was Re: What's the best language to start with?] Larry Kilgallen
1996-08-23  0:00                                                         ` Tim Hollebeek
1996-08-24  0:00                                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-24  0:00                                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-23  0:00                                                       ` Andrew Koenig
1996-08-22  0:00                                                     ` Andrew Koenig
1996-08-24  0:00                                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-22  0:00                                                     ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-22  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-18  0:00                                               ` Steve Heller
1996-08-21  0:00                                               ` Matt Austern
1996-08-23  0:00                                               ` Tanmoy Bhattacharya
1996-08-23  0:00                                                 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-16  0:00                                             ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-18  0:00                                               ` Steve Heller
1996-08-18  0:00                                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-08-18  0:00                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-14  0:00                                       ` Stephen Baynes
1996-08-14  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-14  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-16  0:00                                           ` Dik T. Winter
1996-08-16  0:00                                             ` Joe Foster
1996-08-18  0:00                                           ` Glenn Rhoads
1996-08-19  0:00                                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
     [not found]                                             ` <dewar.840491732@schonberg>
1996-08-19  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1996-08-22  0:00                                                 ` Stephen Baynes
1996-08-27  0:00                                                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-19  0:00                                           ` Stephen Baynes
1996-08-19  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-19  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-13  0:00                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-13  0:00                                       ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-14  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-13  0:00                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-14  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-15  0:00                                       ` Tom Payne
1996-08-14  0:00                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-15  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-15  0:00                                     ` Blair Phillips
1996-08-27  0:00                                     ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Tanmoy Bhattacharya
1996-08-29  0:00                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-30  0:00                                       ` Steve Heller
1996-08-30  0:00                                     ` Tanmoy Bhattacharya
1996-08-07  0:00                                 ` What's the best language to start with Ian Ward
1996-08-08  0:00                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-09  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-11  0:00                                 ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Jerone A. Bowers
1996-08-12  0:00                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-05  0:00                         ` Henrik Wetterstrom
1996-08-13  0:00                       ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-16  0:00                         ` Steve Heller
1996-08-16  0:00                           ` John Hobson
1996-07-31  0:00                   ` Patrick Horgan
1996-07-31  0:00                   ` AJ Musgrove
1996-08-01  0:00                     ` Sam Harris
1996-08-02  0:00                       ` Eric W. Nikitin
1996-08-01  0:00                     ` Tim Hollebeek
1996-08-01  0:00                     ` Ken Pizzini
1996-08-03  0:00                     ` Raffael Cavallaro
1996-08-05  0:00                       ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-08  0:00                   ` William Clodius
1996-08-11  0:00                     ` Dik T. Winter
1996-08-11  0:00                     ` Fergus Henderson
1996-08-08  0:00                   ` William Clodius
1996-08-13  0:00                   ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
1996-08-14  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-15  0:00                   ` Teaching sorts [was Re: What's the best language to start with?] Norman H. Cohen
1996-08-16  0:00                     ` Steve Heller
1996-08-19  0:00                   ` Ted Dennison
1996-08-23  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-23  0:00                       ` Ted Dennison
1996-08-24  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-27  0:00                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-02  0:00                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-07-28  0:00                 ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Mark Eissler
1996-07-28  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-29  0:00                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-30  0:00                   ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn TRAN PHAN ANH
1996-07-30  0:00                   ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Paul Campbell
1996-07-30  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-02  0:00                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-03  0:00                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-04  0:00                           ` Alf P. Steinbach
1996-08-04  0:00                             ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-04  0:00                               ` Jerry van Dijk
1996-08-05  0:00                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-04  0:00                                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-05  0:00                                   ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-05  0:00                                     ` Tim Hollebeek
1996-08-10  0:00                                       ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-05  0:00                                     ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-07  0:00                                       ` Tom Watson
1996-08-06  0:00                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-03  0:00                     ` Patrick Horgan
1996-08-04  0:00                       ` Kurt E. Huhner
1996-07-31  0:00                   ` Arne W. Flones
1996-08-02  0:00                   ` David Wheeler
1996-08-02  0:00                     ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-02  0:00                       ` Gary M. Greenberg
1996-08-03  0:00                       ` Alf P. Steinbach
1996-08-02  0:00                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-05  0:00                       ` Chris Sonnack
1996-08-05  0:00                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-06  0:00                     ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pasca StHeller
1996-08-06  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-06  0:00                 ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-06  0:00                 ` Conrad Herrmann
1996-08-06  0:00                 ` Alf P. Steinbach
1996-07-29  0:00               ` Byron B. Kauffman
1996-07-30  0:00               ` Alan Peake
     [not found]               ` <dewar. <peake.206.002D549F@dstos3.dsto.gov.au>
1996-07-31  0:00                 ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-02  0:00                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-05  0:00                     ` Mark McKinney
1996-08-05  0:00                     ` Mark McKinney
1996-08-05  0:00                     ` Mark McKinney
1996-07-31  0:00                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-31  0:00                 ` P. Cnudde VH14 (8218)
1996-07-31  0:00                   ` Nicolas Devillard
1996-08-02  0:00                   ` Matt Austern
1996-08-15  0:00                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-07-20  0:00           ` Should I learn C or Pascal? Robert Dewar
1996-07-22  0:00             ` TRAN PHAN ANH
1996-07-23  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-20  0:00           ` Andy Askey
1996-07-20  0:00             ` steidl
1996-07-21  0:00               ` Andy Askey
1996-07-22  0:00           ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-23  0:00             ` TRAN PHAN ANH
1996-07-18  0:00       ` Carlos DeAngulo
1996-07-18  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-19  0:00           ` Jon Bell
1996-07-22  0:00             ` Tim Oxler
1996-07-22  0:00               ` Janus
1996-07-22  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-30  0:00                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-31  0:00                 ` Patrick Horgan
1996-07-22  0:00               ` Stig Norland
     [not found]           ` <01bb7588$236982e0$7b91f780@deangulo>
1996-07-19  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-20  0:00             ` steidl
1996-07-19  0:00         ` Dirk Dickmanns
     [not found]         ` <01bb7591$83087d60$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>
1996-07-19  0:00           ` Craig Franck
1996-07-19  0:00           ` johnf
1996-07-19  0:00             ` Jason Alan Turnage
1996-07-19  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-20  0:00                 ` Crash
1996-07-20  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-20  0:00                 ` Jon Bell
1996-07-20  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-21  0:00                     ` Alexander Vrenios
1996-07-21  0:00                   ` Steve Tate
1996-07-21  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-21  0:00                     ` Phil Howard
1996-07-21  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-22  0:00                         ` Steve Tate
1996-07-22  0:00                   ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-25  0:00                   ` ++           robin
1996-07-20  0:00                 ` TRAN PHAN ANH
1996-07-22  0:00                   ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-23  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-22  0:00               ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-22  0:00                 ` Jeremy Nelson
1996-07-22  0:00                   ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-19  0:00             ` Jeremy Nelson
1996-07-20  0:00             ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-22  0:00             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-23  0:00               ` Joe Gwinn
1996-07-24  0:00                 ` John A Hughes
1996-07-24  0:00                 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-23  0:00             ` John A Hughes
1996-07-18  0:00       ` Walter B. Hollman Sr.
1996-07-18  0:00       ` Patrick Horgan
1996-07-18  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-19  0:00           ` Billy Chambless
1996-07-18  0:00         ` Jason Alan Turnage
1996-07-19  0:00           ` Vic Metcalfe
1996-07-19  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-20  0:00             ` steved
1996-07-19  0:00               ` Peter Seebach
1996-07-20  0:00                 ` Jon Bell
1996-07-20  0:00                   ` Andy Askey
1996-07-20  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-22  0:00                   ` steidl
1996-07-22  0:00                     ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-23  0:00                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-07-23  0:00                         ` Michael Ickes
1996-07-25  0:00                           ` Andy Askey
1996-07-24  0:00                         ` system
1996-07-23  0:00             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-19  0:00         ` Andrew Gierth
1996-07-19  0:00         ` Scott McMahan - Softbase Systems
1996-07-20  0:00           ` steidl
1996-07-20  0:00           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-21  0:00             ` Rich Maggio
1996-07-21  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-22  0:00             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-23  0:00               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-19  0:00         ` Reto Koradi
1996-07-23  0:00           ` TRAN PHAN ANH
1996-07-23  0:00     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-07-16  0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-07-24  0:00   ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-17  0:00 ` Aron Felix Gurski
1996-07-19  0:00 ` Andrew Gierth
1996-07-19  0:00 ` Andrew Gierth
1996-07-19  0:00 ` Andrew Gierth
1996-07-21  0:00 ` Laurent Guerby
1996-07-22  0:00   ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-21  0:00 ` Wayne
1996-07-22  0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-07-22  0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-07-23  0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-07-24  0:00   ` Michael Feldman
1996-07-24  0:00   ` Andrew J Steinbach
1996-07-24  0:00     ` system
1996-07-24  0:00     ` Jon Bell
1996-07-24  0:00     ` John A Hughes
1996-07-24  0:00   ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-24  0:00     ` TRAN PHAN ANH
1996-07-24  0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-07-25  0:00   ` Andy Askey
1996-07-26  0:00     ` Mark Eissler
1996-08-02  0:00   ` Patrick Horgan
1996-08-04  0:00     ` Gary M. Greenberg
     [not found]     ` <4u76ej$7s9@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
1996-08-06  0:00       ` Ralph Silverman
1996-08-12  0:00         ` Patrick Horgan
1996-08-13  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-08-13  0:00           ` Darin Johnson
1996-08-13  0:00             ` What's the best language to learn? [was Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-14  0:00               ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-14  0:00                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-14  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-14  0:00                     ` Dan Pop
1996-08-14  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-14  0:00                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-15  0:00                     ` Joe Foster
1996-08-14  0:00                   ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-14  0:00                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-14  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-15  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-16  0:00                         ` Joe Foster
1996-08-18  0:00                         ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-20  0:00                           ` James Youngman
1996-08-21  0:00                           ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-15  0:00                       ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-15  0:00                     ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-18  0:00                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-15  0:00                     ` DAVID A MOLNAR
1996-08-16  0:00                   ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-08-18  0:00                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-21  0:00                       ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-21  0:00                         ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-22  0:00                         ` Mark Wooding
1996-08-23  0:00                           ` Bengt Richter
1996-08-23  0:00                         ` Clayton Weaver
1996-08-16  0:00                   ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-17  0:00                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-18  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-18  0:00                         ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-26  0:00                         ` Patrick Horgan
1996-08-27  0:00                           ` Alan Peake
1996-08-27  0:00                             ` Steve Heller
1996-08-28  0:00                             ` Tom Watson
1996-08-28  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-30  0:00                               ` Alan Peake
1996-08-31  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-09-03  0:00                                   ` Alan Peake
1996-09-07  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-09-07  0:00                                 ` .
1996-08-28  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-29  0:00                           ` Darin Johnson
1996-08-19  0:00                       ` John Hobson
1996-08-19  0:00                         ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-19  0:00                           ` John Hobson
1996-08-20  0:00                             ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-27  0:00                               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-23  0:00                           ` Alan Bowler
1996-08-14  0:00               ` Gabor Egressy
1996-08-15  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-17  0:00                   ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-17  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-20  0:00                       ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-16  0:00                 ` Mark Wooding
1996-08-17  0:00                   ` Dan Pop
1996-08-17  0:00                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-17  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-18  0:00                         ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-17  0:00                       ` Dan Pop
1996-08-18  0:00                         ` Mark Wooding
1996-08-20  0:00                           ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-21  0:00                           ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-21  0:00                             ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-21  0:00                             ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-17  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-21  0:00                     ` Tanmoy Bhattacharya
1996-08-30  0:00                       ` Goto considered really harmful Patrick Horgan
1996-09-04  0:00                         ` Dennison
1996-08-21  0:00               ` What's the best language to learn? [any language except Ada] Bill Mackay
1996-08-22  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-23  0:00                   ` Larry J. Elmore
1996-08-22  0:00                 ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-24  0:00                 ` Alan Brain
1996-08-15  0:00             ` Should I learn C or Pascal? Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-17  0:00               ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-18  0:00                 ` Ken Pizzini
1996-08-19  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-23  0:00                   ` Joe Keane
1996-08-17  0:00               ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-17  0:00               ` Alexander J Russell
1996-08-16  0:00             ` Dr E. Buxbaum
1996-08-16  0:00               ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-16  0:00               ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-17  0:00                 ` Paul Hsieh
1996-08-17  0:00                   ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-19  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-20  0:00                       ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-22  0:00                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-22  0:00                           ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-20  0:00               ` Paul Schlyter
1996-08-20  0:00                 ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-21  0:00                 ` James Youngman
1996-08-22  0:00                   ` TRAN PHAN ANH
1996-08-22  0:00                     ` Dr E. Buxbaum
1996-08-27  0:00             ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1996-08-27  0:00               ` Craig Franck
1996-08-27  0:00                 ` Ted Dennison
1996-08-27  0:00                   ` John Hobson
1996-08-27  0:00               ` Ted Dennison
1996-08-27  0:00               ` Steve Heller
1996-08-27  0:00               ` Bob Cousins
1996-08-28  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-09-01  0:00               ` Patrick Horgan
1996-09-12  0:00                 ` Delete - Don't Bother to Read This Charles H. Sampson
1996-08-16  0:00           ` Should I learn C or Pascal? Darin Johnson
1996-08-16  0:00           ` What's the best language to learn? [was Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Darin Johnson
1996-08-16  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-16  0:00             ` system
1996-08-20  0:00           ` Should I learn C or Pascal? Darin Johnson
1996-08-21  0:00           ` What's the best language to learn? [was Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Darin Johnson
1996-08-22  0:00           ` What's the best language to learn? [any language except Ada] Jon S Anthony
1996-08-23  0:00           ` Darin Johnson
1996-08-25  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-24  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-05  0:00   ` Should I learn C or Pascal? Sherwin Anthony Sequeira
1996-07-24  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-07-25  0:00 ` ++           robin
1996-07-25  0:00 ` ++           robin
1996-07-30  0:00   ` Robert Barnes
1996-07-30  0:00     ` Rob(t.) Brannan
1996-08-01  0:00       ` Tony Konashenok
1996-08-04  0:00         ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-09  0:00         ` Verne Arase
1996-08-01  0:00       ` ++           robin
1996-08-01  0:00         ` Ralph Silverman
1996-08-06  0:00           ` ++           robin
1996-07-25  0:00 ` ++           robin
1996-07-31  0:00 ` What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Darin Johnson
1996-08-02  0:00   ` Alan Peake
1996-07-31  0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-08-01  0:00   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-01  0:00     ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-03  0:00       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-06  0:00         ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-05  0:00     ` Patrick Horgan
1996-08-06  0:00       ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-06  0:00       ` Dan Pop
1996-08-08  0:00         ` steidl
1996-08-01  0:00 ` Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund
1996-08-05  0:00   ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-06  0:00     ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-07  0:00       ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-09  0:00         ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-06  0:00   ` Patrick Horgan
1996-08-01  0:00 ` Andy Hardy
1996-08-07  0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-08-07  0:00   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-08  0:00     ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-08  0:00       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-08  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-08  0:00           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-08  0:00             ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-09  0:00               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-09  0:00                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-15  0:00                   ` James_Rogers
1996-08-17  0:00                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-10  0:00           ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-10  0:00             ` Peter Seebach
1996-08-11  0:00             ` Craig Franck
1996-08-08  0:00         ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-08  0:00           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-09  0:00             ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-09  0:00               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-10  0:00                 ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-11  0:00                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-09  0:00           ` some days weren't there at all
1996-08-10  0:00           ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-08-11  0:00             ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-08-17  0:00             ` Richard Chiu
1996-09-04  0:00               ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-08  0:00         ` Christopher R Volpe
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