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From: dewar@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation)
Date: 1996/07/12
Date: 1996-07-12T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.837177844@schonberg> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 4s4gbf$5fm@news.ld.centuryinter.net


Jeff said

"And I am not at all convinced that "comments are ... at greater
liability in this".  When the program's behavior seems to disagree with
a comment, the comment is easily written-off as probably incorrect."

Generally I agree with Jeff, but I do not quite agree with the above. If
the comments and a programs behavior in respect to these comments do not
agree, then the program has a bug. The bug may be bad comments or it may
be bad code, you can't tell a priori, and it is a mistake to assume the
code is right *even if the program is 100% reliable and correct in terms
of its execution behavior*. 

We have all seen cases of cancelling bugs in programs, where two pieces
of code violate their specs (and hence commens), but the bugs cancel out.
I would say that although such a program is correct in a formal sense,
it has two bugs in it, and they need correcting, and in this case the
commens are right and the code is wrong.

The problem comes during maintenance when some bright programmer fixes
one of the two bugs, or uses one of the two pieces of code without the
other. This kind of emergence of latent bugs is one of the most
worrisome aspects of maintenance programming, and is a good reminder
that the intended behavior of a program internally is not neccessarily
modeled by its actual behavior *even if the program is completely
correctly operating*. So you cannot tell the intent of a piece of code
just by looking at the code even if you know the program is correct
(in the formal sense of the term, i.e. the entire program meets its spec).

In such cases, comments can be invaluable in figuring out the intent.

Now of course all programs are extensively commented in practice (well
nearly all :-) since they use meaningful variable names. If you see a
procedure called

  launch_rocket

you assume that it has something to do with launching a rocket. Indeed:

   procedure action_1096;
   -- procedure to launch_rocket

and

   procedure launch_rocket;

are pretty similar in terms of ones informal understanding of the program.
If in eiher case the routine actually causes (and is intended to cause)
the rocket to self-destruct, then you have an incorrect and misleading
comment in either case (and I would say a bug in either case).

P.S. Choosing effective names is an important tool for making programs
informally more readable, but I find it dangerous to rely on names alone,
they can often mislead at the detail level.





  reply	other threads:[~1996-07-12  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 216+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <4adem2$b5s@mercury.IntNet.net>
     [not found] ` <4ahka7$o9m@inrou.erno.de>
1996-05-13  0:00   ` Hungarian notation Roger Merritt
1996-05-14  0:00     ` Keith Whittingham
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-14  0:00         ` Pete Becker
     [not found]           ` <4ndb2j$1p0q@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Mark Chu-Carroll
1996-05-16  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1996-05-17  0:00                 ` Scott
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` G.O.Visser
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Scott
1996-05-16  0:00               ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-05-18  0:00                 ` Warren Young
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Steve Branam
1996-05-16  0:00         ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Dave Mikesell
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Dr S.J. Harris
1996-05-15  0:00         ` Gerolf Wendland
1996-05-16  0:00           ` mAg
1996-05-17  0:00             ` Arne W Flones
1996-05-21  0:00               ` Norman L. Reitzel   
1996-05-21  0:00                 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00                         ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Michael Furman
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Slander (was: Hungarian notation) Graham Perkins
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-23  0:00                   ` Hungarian notation Peter Moylan
1996-05-21  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Steve Willer
1996-05-28  0:00                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-29  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-25  0:00                         ` Steve Willer
1996-05-25  0:00                           ` Hungarian notation: the thread of choice for consummate boors The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-27  0:00                             ` Ken Nicolson
     [not found]                             ` <HFsHoD96w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
1996-05-28  0:00                               ` Jon Hornstein
1996-06-05  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                           ` James McKim
1996-06-07  0:00                             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-26  0:00                       ` Warren Young
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Andy Ho-Fan Chan
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-28  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Janus
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-29  0:00                             ` Michael Furman
1996-05-31  0:00                               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31  0:00                                 ` Commenting (was Re: Hungarian notation) Alan Bowler
1996-05-31  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-03  0:00                                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-06-01  0:00                                 ` Hungarian notation Warren Young
1996-06-01  0:00                                 ` Steve Willer
1996-06-03  0:00                                   ` Warren Young
1996-05-29  0:00                             ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-29  0:00                               ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-30  0:00                                 ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-31  0:00                             ` Will Rose
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07  0:00                                 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-01  0:00                             ` Heinz Hemken
1996-06-02  0:00                               ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-02  0:00                               ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                         ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-27  0:00                       ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-27  0:00                         ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27  0:00                           ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-28  0:00                               ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-29  0:00                               ` Comments was: " Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-30  0:00                                 ` Kevin Cline
     [not found]                           ` <4odgjh$6o@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` try to run this! - try_me.exe [3/4] Otmar Conradus
1996-05-28  0:00                       ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31  0:00                         ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Clark L. Coleman
1996-06-03  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-06-13  0:00                             ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Richard Riehle
1996-06-15  0:00                                 ` Train
1996-06-18  0:00                                 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-06-18  0:00                                   ` David Zink
1996-06-19  0:00                                     ` Michael Furman
1996-06-20  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-23  0:00                                         ` David Zink
1996-06-23  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-28  0:00                                         ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-28  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-11  0:00                                             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12  0:00                                               ` steidl
1996-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1996-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-06-29  0:00                                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-06-29  0:00                                           ` steidl
1996-06-20  0:00                                   ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hun Ian Ward
1996-06-05  0:00                           ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Peter Moylan
1996-06-05  0:00                             ` Mike Fulton
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Shane Badham
1996-06-13  0:00                                 ` Steve Sobol
1996-06-14  0:00                                   ` Re-designing CS (long) (Was: Re: The Last Word on Comments) Warren Young
1996-06-21  0:00                                   ` Re-designing CS (long) Warren Young
1996-06-24  0:00                                     ` Brian J. Quandt
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Steve Howard
1996-06-06  0:00                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-06  0:00                               ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-08  0:00                             ` Bill Hay
1996-06-11  0:00                               ` Derek Lee Beatty
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                             ` Kevin J. Weise
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-12  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-17  0:00                               ` James McKim
1996-06-18  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-06  0:00                       ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                         ` David Hopkins
1996-06-07  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation (an aside) Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-07  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07  0:00                           ` Steve Willer
1996-06-10  0:00                             ` Michael Furman
1996-06-12  0:00                               ` Warren Young
1996-06-06  0:00                       ` Sam Hunting
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` I wish it was "The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation)" Blair MacIntyre
1996-06-03  0:00                     ` Hungarian notation Norman H. Cohen
1996-06-10  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-18  0:00             ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Laurent Guerby
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Please keep Hungarian notation thread OUT of comp.lang.modula3 Tim Mann
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Hungarian notation Robert I. Eachus
1996-05-23  0:00             ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Paul J. Kossick
1996-05-25  0:00                 ` Raoul De Kezel
1996-06-05  0:00             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-05  0:00               ` jthorpe
1996-06-06  0:00               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07  0:00                   ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-06-10  0:00                   ` Michael Furman
1996-06-11  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-11  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` Chris Engebretson
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-12  0:00                       ` Bob Rodgers
1996-06-12  0:00                         ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-13  0:00                           ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-06-13  0:00                           ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-22  0:00                       ` Richard Green
1996-06-11  0:00                     ` Will Rose
1996-06-07  0:00                 ` Chris Kuan
1996-06-05  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-16  0:00       ` Dave Toland
1996-05-21  0:00       ` mAg
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Mark A Biggar
1996-05-21  0:00           ` slary61
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23  0:00           ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24  0:00               ` Steve Willer
1996-05-24  0:00               ` slary61
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1996-05-26  0:00                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-27  0:00                     ` Warren Young
1996-06-03  0:00                     ` Eva
1996-05-28  0:00                   ` Paul D. DeRocco
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Dave Toland
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jerry Kuch
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Ian Ward
1996-05-27  0:00                 ` Norman L. Reitzel   
1996-05-27  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-28  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1996-05-29  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-01  0:00                     ` Michael Feldman
1996-05-29  0:00                 ` AJ Musgrove
1996-06-05  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Train
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` jeffos2
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-28  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-24  0:00         ` Oleg Kagan
1996-06-05  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-14  0:00     ` David Priest
1996-05-14  0:00     ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-15  0:00       ` Graham Perkins
1996-05-15  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-16  0:00           ` Pete Becker
1996-05-23  0:00     ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-28  0:00     ` Homonnai Misi
1996-05-28  0:00     ` Brian Rogoff
1996-05-20  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-20  0:00     ` Tom Wheeley
1996-05-23  0:00     ` Steve Willer
1996-05-22  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1996-06-01  0:00   ` Jim Kingdon
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