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From: dewar@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)
Subject: Re: ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada)
Date: 1996/04/09
Date: 1996-04-09T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dewar.829051685@schonberg> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 4kcsnsINNgkb@keats.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca

Kazimir said:

>This is poor coding. You are _advertizing_ a buffer of size 1000, but passing a
>pointer to a 100 byte buffer. It wouldn't even occur to me to do this, and
>until now I have been completely oblivious to this difference between Linux
>and other systems.

  The spec of an interface does not depend on what "wouldn't even occur"
  to Kazimir, it must be independently defined.

>Unfortunately, I could not find anything in POSIX.1 that would explicitly
>disallow this. The document is not very assertive in defining undefined
>behavior. I'm going to check it once again in case I missed something.

  This is not a matter of defining undefined, it is a matter of defining
  the requirement on the length of the read buffer, and it is truly
  amazing to me that none of the references at hand, not even the POSIX
  document, specifies this.

>It's not surprising: you lied to the read() function. But you are right, you
>can't tell this from the definition in POSIX.1 or from typical manual pages.
 
  Sorry, this is wrong, I lied to the *implemention* of the function as
  it occurred in Linux. Now it is true that the spec of the function is
  different in Linux than in other systems (you quoted the manual pages
  that showed this clearly). So of course we have a portability problem
  here. Read is different in different systems, not only at the
  implementation level, but at the spec level. The program in question
  was correct with respect to the spec on "other systems":

>I checked the manual pages for read() on several systems. Linux documents
>that results if the buffer pointed at by buf is outside of the address space
>of the process. On other systems, it is claimed that EFAULT results if
>the buf pointer is directed outside of the address space.

  Kazimir, perhaps you don't understand the whole idea of specs, but that
  quote means that code that makes sure that the pointer is directed inside
  the address space is OK if the buffer is not overrun!

>There are certain unwritten rules, though!

  That's the totally unacceptable viewpoint that is at the center of
  the concerns in this thread (the details of read are uninteresting).
  The trouble is of course that Kazimir's unwritten rules are clearly
  different from other unwritten rules.

  I think one of the most essential things to understand in programming
  is the importance of abstracting specifications from implementation.
  Comments like the above (unwritten rules) one show that there is a
  long way to go!

>What prevented the code from advertizing the true buffer size of 100?
>In any case, it doesn't sound like a case of ``defensive programming''.

  Whoever said it was?

  With respect to the discussion of seperate processes adding to the
  file etc, this is irrelevant to the discussion of the spec difference.
  For the program in question, you still get a different behavior on
  the two systems:

    On Linux, you always get an exception

    On "other systems", you get defined behavior, and no exception,
    unless this unlikely external event lengthens the file, in which
    case you get undefined behavior.

  These are quite different semantics, and it is different semantics that
  result in one kind of portability problem.

  The observation about appending to the file is relevant in recommending
  that the count reflect the actual count expected to be read, and of
  course this was LONG ago corrected, within hours of finding the Linux
  behavior, so I can't show you the incorrect code.

  But the fact remains that we have a portability problem which SHOULD be
  cleared up by POSIX (or perhaps by SPEC1170), but apparently is not
  mentioned by POSIX< and I am willing to bet that SPEC1170 is similiarly
  vague. The standard of precision in defining specs of routines at this
  level is generally appalling.





  reply	other threads:[~1996-04-09  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 478+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <00001a73+00002504@msn.com>
     [not found] ` <313EDF38.61C1@lfwc.lockheed.com>
     [not found] ` <4etcmm$lpd@nova.dimensional.com>
     [not found]   ` <4f4ptt$a1c@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
     [not found]     ` <4g1b7n$l5@mailhub.scitec.com.au>
     [not found]       ` <4g577o$28r@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
1996-02-17  0:00         ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada Ell
1996-02-17  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]       ` <3124B2F3.6D21@escmail.orl.mmc.com>
1996-02-19  0:00         ` Ramses Youhana
1996-02-19  0:00           ` Ted Dennison
     [not found]       ` <JSA.96Feb16135027@organon.com>
     [not found]         ` <313D4D00.875@ix.netcom.com>
1996-02-19  0:00         ` Mike Stark
1996-02-20  0:00           ` Ed Franks
1996-02-21  0:00             ` Matthew M. Lih
1996-02-22  0:00               ` Ted Dennison
1996-02-25  0:00                 ` Thomas G. McWilliams
1996-02-25  0:00                   ` vancleef
1996-02-26  0:00                     ` Matthew M. Lih
1996-02-25  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-22  0:00             ` Bill Lee
1996-02-25  0:00               ` Ed Franks
     [not found]         ` <DnuGrG.JrE@news.thomson-lcr.fr>
     [not found]           ` <4hl082INNc7d@keats.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca>
1996-03-15  0:00             ` AdaWorks
1996-03-15  0:00               ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-18  0:00                 ` Matt Kennel
     [not found]         ` <4hf701INNdl7@keats.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca>
     [not found]           ` <4hm6lo$eln@fred.netinfo.com.au>
     [not found]             ` <4hml8s$a1q@solutions.solon.com>
1996-03-15  0:00               ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-15  0:00                 ` Kazimir Kylheku
     [not found]         ` <adaworksDnrqsE.LpC@netcom.com>
     [not found]           ` <4hhred$1rn@sun152.spd.dsccc.com>
     [not found]             ` <4i19mg$vkt@azure.dstc.edu.au>
     [not found]               ` <4i4cf2$crm@sun152.spd.dsccc.com>
1996-03-15  0:00                 ` AdaWorks
1996-03-18  0:00                   ` Kevin Cline
1996-03-19  0:00                     ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-20  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1996-03-20  0:00                         ` Richard Pitre
1996-03-21  0:00                         ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada(Bindings) Scott Moody
1996-03-21  0:00                         ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-20  0:00                     ` AdaWorks
1996-03-22  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1996-03-22  0:00                         ` AdaWorks
1996-03-22  0:00                         ` David Weller
1996-03-26  0:00                     ` Jon S Anthony
1996-03-26  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-26  0:00                     ` Ed Falis
1996-03-28  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1996-04-04  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-03-21  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-03-22  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1996-03-21  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1996-03-22  0:00                 ` Kevin Cline
1996-03-30  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-01  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1996-04-02  0:00                       ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-02  0:00                         ` Tom Payne
1996-04-02  0:00                         ` ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) David Emery
1996-04-02  0:00                           ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-04-03  0:00                             ` David Emery
1996-04-03  0:00                               ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-04-04  0:00                                 ` Dan Pop
1996-04-03  0:00                             ` Bill Clinton
1996-04-04  0:00                               ` Forger Bubba Clinton defends David Emery of Grebyn Corp The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-04-04  0:00                                 ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-05  0:00                                   ` Kazimir Kylheku on exorcism The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-04-04  0:00                           ` ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-05  0:00                             ` David Emery
1996-04-06  0:00                               ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-05  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-05  0:00                               ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-05  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-06  0:00                                   ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-06  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-07  0:00                                       ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-10  0:00                                         ` halvin
1996-04-10  0:00                                           ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-11  0:00                                           ` Dan Pop
1996-04-12  0:00                                           ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-12  0:00                                       ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-12  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-13  0:00                                           ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-13  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-13  0:00                                               ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-13  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-14  0:00                                                   ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-15  0:00                                                   ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-15  0:00                                               ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-16  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-16  0:00                                                   ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-16  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-12  0:00                                   ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-11  0:00                                     ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-12  0:00                                       ` Tom Griest
1996-04-12  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-12  0:00                                       ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-12  0:00                                         ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-12  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-13  0:00                                       ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-13  0:00                                         ` David Emery
1996-04-22  0:00                                       ` Mike McCarty
1996-04-22  0:00                                         ` David Emery
1996-04-05  0:00                               ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-05  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-06  0:00                                   ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-06  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-16  0:00                                     ` Philip Brashear
1996-04-16  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-19  0:00                                         ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-06  0:00         ` Dan Pop
1996-04-07  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-07  0:00             ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-08  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-08  0:00                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-08  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-08  0:00                     ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar [this message]
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-09  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-09  0:00                             ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-10  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-10  0:00                                 ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-10  0:00                             ` David Emery
1996-04-10  0:00                         ` ANSI C and POSIX Laurent Guerby
1996-04-09  0:00                     ` ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) Peter Seebach
1996-04-10  0:00                     ` John Marshall
1996-04-10  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-08  0:00                   ` Fergus Henderson
1996-04-08  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-08  0:00                       ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-11  0:00                           ` Tom Wheeley
1996-04-11  0:00                             ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-12  0:00                               ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-13  0:00                               ` Tom Wheeley
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-08  0:00                     ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Fergus Henderson
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Kenneth Mays
1996-04-10  0:00                           ` Fergus Henderson
1996-04-10  0:00                         ` Tom Payne
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Fergus Henderson
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-09  0:00                           ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-10  0:00                     ` Steve Summit
1996-04-10  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-14  0:00                         ` ANSI C and POSIX Steve Summit
1996-04-09  0:00                   ` ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) Steve Tynor
1996-04-09  0:00                     ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-10  0:00                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-12  0:00                       ` Dr S.J. Harris
1996-04-12  0:00                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-10  0:00                     ` Chet
1996-04-10  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-10  0:00                       ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-10  0:00                       ` Tom Watson
1996-04-10  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-12  0:00                   ` Gareth Rees
1996-04-08  0:00                 ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-08  0:00                   ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-04-08  0:00                     ` James McIninch
1996-04-08  0:00                       ` Fergus Henderson
1996-04-08  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-19  0:00                         ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-20  0:00                           ` Fergus Henderson
1996-04-20  0:00                             ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-08  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-11  0:00                         ` Keith Thompson
1996-04-19  0:00                         ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-08  0:00                       ` Szu-Wen Huang
1996-04-08  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-19  0:00                           ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-08  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-08  0:00                     ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-08  0:00                     ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-09  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-09  0:00                             ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-10  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-10  0:00                                 ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-10  0:00                                   ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-19  0:00                                   ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-19  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-23  0:00                                       ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-10  0:00                         ` Mike Shannon
1996-04-09  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-09  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-09  0:00                             ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-10  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-11  0:00                           ` Tom Wheeley
1996-04-11  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-11  0:00                             ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-12  0:00                               ` Tom Wheeley
1996-04-12  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-13  0:00                                   ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-13  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-19  0:00                                       ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-19  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-22  0:00                                           ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-19  0:00                                         ` David Emery
1996-04-23  0:00                                         ` Keith Thompson
1996-04-13  0:00                               ` ANSI C and POSIX Laurent Guerby
1996-04-15  0:00                                 ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-16  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-16  0:00                                     ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-16  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-17  0:00                                         ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-19  0:00                                           ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-19  0:00                                             ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-20  0:00                                               ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-19  0:00                                             ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-26  0:00                                             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-04-16  0:00                                       ` David Emery
1996-04-17  0:00                                         ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-18  0:00                                           ` David Emery
1996-04-17  0:00                                     ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-04-19  0:00                                     ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-21  0:00                                     ` Michael Feldman
1996-04-17  0:00                                   ` Joanne Galindo
1996-04-19  0:00                               ` ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-19  0:00                                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-20  0:00                                   ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-19  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-23  0:00                                   ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-09  0:00                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-25  0:00                       ` BLUE
1996-04-10  0:00                 ` Matt Austern
1996-04-10  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-10  0:00                 ` Tom Payne
1996-04-07  0:00             ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-07  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-08  0:00                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-08  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-08  0:00                     ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-08  0:00                       ` POSIX/Unix conformance (was: ANSI C and POSIX ...) David Emery
1996-04-12  0:00                         ` Chuck Karish
1996-04-13  0:00                           ` David Emery
1996-04-09  0:00                     ` ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) Dan Pop
1996-04-09  0:00                       ` James McIninch
1996-04-10  0:00                         ` Dan Pop
1996-04-09  0:00                           ` Danette & Murray Root
1996-04-11  0:00                         ` Tom Wheeley
1996-04-10  0:00                       ` Trademarks (was: Re: ANSI C and POSIX) Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-12  0:00                         ` Teresa Reiko
1996-04-07  0:00             ` ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) Dan Pop
1996-04-07  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-19  0:00       ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada Adam Morris
1996-02-19  0:00         ` Ian S. Nelson
     [not found]   ` <BYERLY_J.96Feb7170158@srm9.motsat.sat.mot.com>
1996-02-19  0:00     ` Ramses Youhana
     [not found]     ` <1996Feb10.111307.113714@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
1996-02-21  0:00       ` AdaWorks
1996-02-19  0:00   ` C/C++ knocks the Robert I. Eachus
1996-02-20  0:00   ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada Ted Dennison
1996-02-22  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-20  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-02-20  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-02-21  0:00     ` Robert S. White
1996-02-20  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-02-20  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-22  0:00     ` Matt Kennel
1996-02-20  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]   ` <3114d8fb.5a455349@zesi.ruhr.de>
     [not found]     ` <4f5h5t$f13@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
     [not found]       ` <4g1bgf$l5@mailhub.scitec.com.au>
1996-02-17  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]         ` <3124B43F.19E0@escmail.orl.mmc.com>
     [not found]           ` <4g2r2r$ded@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov>
1996-02-17  0:00             ` C/C++ knocks the Robert Dewar
1996-02-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-18  0:00               ` Ray Toal
1996-02-18  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-18  0:00             ` Tucker Taft
1996-02-22  0:00               ` Matt Kennel
1996-02-24  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-02-22  0:00               ` Large Scale OO Development (was Re: C/C++ knocks the ....) Don Harrison
1996-02-19  0:00             ` C/C++ knocks the Jon S Anthony
1996-02-20  0:00               ` Ray Toal
1996-02-20  0:00                 ` David Weller
1996-02-21  0:00                 ` John DiCamillo
1996-02-23  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1996-02-23  0:00               ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-02-24  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-02-25  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-17  0:00         ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada Tuishimi
     [not found]         ` <312515DF.7D3B@cmlj.demon.co.uk>
     [not found]           ` <4g3d70$nnn@queeg.apci.net>
1996-02-17  0:00             ` Chris Littlejohns
1996-02-18  0:00           ` ++           robin
1996-02-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-19  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-02-20  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-22  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-02-22  0:00                   ` Ken Garlington
1996-02-22  0:00                     ` Ted Dennison
1996-02-19  0:00           ` Pete Becker
1996-02-20  0:00             ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-02-20  0:00               ` Andrew Koenig
1996-02-21  0:00                 ` Jay Martin
1996-02-21  0:00                 ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-02-25  0:00                   ` J Greene
1996-02-26  0:00                     ` Peter Finney
     [not found]             ` <4 <dirk.824894312@demokrit>
1996-02-21  0:00               ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-02-26  0:00                 ` Matthew B. Kennel
1996-02-27  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-27  0:00                     ` ron thompson
1996-02-22  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-02-22  0:00               ` Ramses Youhana
1996-02-24  0:00               ` Ray Toal
1996-02-24  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-24  0:00                 ` JR Crosmer
1996-02-27  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-02-26  0:00                 ` James O'Connor
     [not found]             ` <4ggshe$7bk@go <4gh5r8$i2@mailhub.scitec.com.au>
1996-02-22  0:00               ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-02-22  0:00                 ` design never happens? Gary McKee
1996-02-22  0:00                 ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada Robert Dewar
1996-02-23  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-02-23  0:00             ` Tom Payne
1996-02-19  0:00         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-02-21  0:00           ` Peter Seebach
1996-02-21  0:00           ` Peter Seebach
1996-02-21  0:00           ` Ramses Youhana
     [not found]         ` <4g2vn3$rgi@dfw.dfw.net>
1996-02-18  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-19  0:00             ` AdaWorks
1996-02-23  0:00             ` Ghost In The Machine
1996-02-24  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-25  0:00                 ` Ghost In The Machine
1996-02-19  0:00           ` Ramses Youhana
1996-02-19  0:00             ` Ian S. Nelson
1996-02-21  0:00             ` Peter Seebach
1996-02-20  0:00     ` Ketil Z Malde
1996-02-20  0:00     ` Matt Austern
1996-02-23  0:00     ` Matthias Blume
1996-02-25  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-20  0:00   ` Lee Graba
1996-02-21  0:00     ` Mark A Biggar
1996-02-20  0:00   ` Ketil Z Malde
1996-02-21  0:00     ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-02-21  0:00       ` 
1996-02-21  0:00       ` David Weller
1996-02-22  0:00       ` Gene Ouye
1996-02-21  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-02-25  0:00       ` Andrew Koenig
1996-02-22  0:00     ` Gary McKee
1996-02-22  0:00     ` Bill Lee
1996-02-21  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
     [not found]   ` <4gaa <4gd94r$isu@mack.rt66.com>
1996-02-21  0:00     ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-02-21  0:00       ` David Weller
1996-02-21  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-02-22  0:00   ` Ketil Z Malde
1996-02-22  0:00   ` C/C++ ... " Norman H. Cohen
1996-02-23  0:00     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-02-22  0:00   ` C/C++ knocks the crap " Jon S Anthony
1996-02-26  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1996-02-26  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1996-03-15  0:00 ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-16  0:00   ` Jay Martin
1996-03-17  0:00     ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-19  0:00     ` Sheldon White
1996-03-20  0:00       ` Jay Martin
1996-03-16  0:00 ` Jay Martin
1996-03-20  0:00   ` David Taylor
     [not found] ` <Pine.A32.3.91.960313165249.124278B-100000@red.weeg.uiowa.edu>
     [not found]   ` <4i9ld6$m2v@rational.rational.com>
     [not found]     ` <4iah20$p7k@saba.info.ucla.edu>
1996-03-15  0:00       ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-15  0:00         ` Jay Martin
1996-03-15  0:00       ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-15  0:00       ` Ian Johnston (by ubsswop)
1996-03-15  0:00       ` Peter Seebach
1996-03-16  0:00       ` Zsoter Andras
1996-03-19  0:00         ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-21  0:00         ` Glenn H. Porter
1996-03-17  0:00       ` Unix Haters Alan Brain
1996-03-22  0:00         ` moi
1996-03-24  0:00           ` Tore Joergensen
1996-03-24  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-26  0:00               ` Wallace E. Owen
1996-03-26  0:00                 ` Tore Joergensen
1996-03-26  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-26  0:00                   ` Richard Pitre
1996-03-27  0:00                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-03-27  0:00                       ` Richard Pitre
1996-03-28  0:00                   ` Kenneth Mays
1996-03-26  0:00           ` Erik W. Anderson
1996-03-26  0:00           ` Erik W. Anderson
1996-03-26  0:00           ` Erik W. Anderson
1996-04-01  0:00             ` Anthony Shih Hao Lee
1996-03-27  0:00           ` Verne Arase
1996-03-27  0:00             ` Richard Pitre
1996-03-27  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-28  0:00               ` Robert L. Spooner, AD3K
1996-03-28  0:00                 ` Dan Pop
1996-03-28  0:00                 ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-28  0:00               ` James McIninch
1996-03-28  0:00                 ` Ian Ward
1996-03-28  0:00                   ` Larry Weiss
1996-04-01  0:00                   ` Laurence Barea
1996-04-02  0:00                     ` Ian Ward
1996-04-08  0:00                       ` Laurence Barea
1996-04-09  0:00                         ` Ian Ward
1996-03-28  0:00               ` Robert Crawford
1996-03-28  0:00               ` Jeff Dege
1996-03-28  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-28  0:00               ` Gary Fiber
1996-03-29  0:00               ` Verne Arase
1996-03-30  0:00               ` Thomas Koenig
1996-03-30  0:00               ` fredex
1996-03-31  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-01  0:00                   ` Dan Pop
1996-04-01  0:00                   ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-01  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-04  0:00                       ` Dan Pop
1996-04-05  0:00                       ` Edwin Lim
1996-04-06  0:00                       ` Wallace E. Owen
1996-04-01  0:00                     ` Tom Payne
1996-04-01  0:00                   ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-04-10  0:00                     ` Steve Detoni
1996-04-11  0:00                       ` Lawrence Kirby
     [not found]                   ` <4jok7f$1l2@solutions.s <4jp1rh$22l@galaxy.ucr.edu>
1996-04-04  0:00                     ` sfms
1996-03-31  0:00               ` Kengo Hashimoto
1996-04-02  0:00                 ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-04-02  0:00                   ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-04-02  0:00               ` Max Waterman
1996-03-20  0:00       ` Ada Parsing Tools (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) John Woodruff
1996-03-20  0:00       ` Mike Young
1996-03-21  0:00         ` Kazimir Kylheku
1996-03-21  0:00         ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-22  0:00           ` 
1996-03-22  0:00             ` 
     [not found] ` <31442F19.6C13@lfwc.lockheed.com>
     [not found]   ` <4i26uhINNsd@keats.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca>
     [not found]     ` <31457584.2475@lfwc.lockheed.com>
     [not found]       ` <4i4s5f$igc@solutions.solon.com>
     [not found]         ` <3146E324.5C1E@lfwc.lockheed.com>
     [not found]           ` <4i98gg$8n1@solutions.solon.com>
1996-03-15  0:00             ` Logic (was " Ken Garlington
     [not found]             ` <Do9tMv.2p3@world.std.com>
     [not found]               ` <4ia41k$e04@solutions.solon.com>
1996-03-18  0:00                 ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-21  0:00                   ` Gripe about Ada, rep specs that won't Doug Rogers
1996-03-20  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-21  0:00                       ` Doug Rogers
1996-03-21  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-22  0:00                           ` Ken Garlington
1996-03-22  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-21  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-22  0:00                           ` Doug Rogers
1996-03-22  0:00                             ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-22  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-22  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-22  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-23  0:00                               ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-23  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-24  0:00                                   ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                                     ` <dewar.827698571@schonberg>
1996-03-25  0:00                                       ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-25  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-26  0:00                                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-26  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-26  0:00                                               ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-26  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-26  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-26  0:00                                               ` Doug Rogers
1996-03-26  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-25  0:00                                 ` Doug Rogers
1996-03-25  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-22  0:00                     ` Pascal OBRY
1996-03-22  0:00                       ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-22  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-22  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-22  0:00                     ` Laurent Guerby
1996-03-22  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-22  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-22  0:00                         ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-22  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-25  0:00                     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-25  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-25  0:00                       ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-19  0:00                 ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada Charles H. Sampson
1996-03-19  0:00                   ` Peter Seebach
1996-03-15  0:00           ` Logic (was C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) Peter Seebach
     [not found]           ` <Pine.A32.3.91.960313165249.124278B-100000@ <4ic92p$2fa@ubszh.fh.zh.ubs.com>
1996-03-29  0:00             ` C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada mich
1996-03-21  0:00       ` Ron Collins
1996-03-28  0:00   ` Unix Haters Dan Pop
1996-03-30  0:00     ` Lawrence Kirby
     [not found]       ` <danpop.828240895@rscernix>
1996-04-01  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Dan Pop
1996-04-03  0:00             ` Michael Feldman
1996-04-04  0:00               ` Dan Pop
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Michael Feldman
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Mike Young
1996-04-11  0:00             ` morphis
1996-04-11  0:00               ` James McIninch
1996-04-11  0:00                 ` morphis
1996-04-12  0:00                 ` Teresa Reiko
1996-04-02  0:00   ` Ralf Graf
1996-04-12  0:00 ANSI C and POSIX (was Re: C/C++ knocks the crap out of Ada) Chuck Karish
1996-04-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-20  0:00   ` Bradd W. Szonye
1996-04-21  0:00     ` Mike Rubenstein
1996-04-22  0:00       ` Tom Payne
1996-04-22  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-04-21  0:00     ` Danette & Murray Root
1996-04-23  0:00       ` Bradd W. Szonye
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