Re: Ada is almost useless in embedded systems

[dewar@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar)]

Tore asks

"Off topic: I'm just a little curious about this use of 'troll'...
Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English (1984) lists
two interpretations; "(in Scandinavian myth) supernatural being, a giant,
or, in later tales, a mischievous but friendly dwarf" and "fish with rod
and line by pulling bait through the water behind a boat". Even a 'Current
English'-dictionary from 1984 isn't current anymore :-), so I'm wondering:
Is this a common use of 'troll', and if it is, is it a noun made from the
'fishing' verb?"

The trouble with English is that it is a very large language, so you need
a big dictionary :-)

I just went downstairs to haul up volume XVIII of OED 2nd edition, to see
what it says.

Troll as a noun is an old usage. There are two entries, one for the 
meaning we are interested in, and a second one for the Scandinavian
creature.

Under the first meaning, we have

"The act of trolling, a going or moving round; routine or repetition"

This is probably not the origin of the Internet use, but seemed
entertainingly relevant. A 1790 quote is

"The troll of their categorical table might have informed them that
there was something else ... besides substance and quantity" 

:-)

The relevant use is probably

"The method of trolling in fishing" 

or

"A lure used in trolling"

The first reference to the method is 1681, and first reference to the lure
that is quoted is 1869.

Anyway the internet usage is an adaptation of an old word that seems
well adapted for the internet use (i.e. a post whose primary intention
is to have other people respond with a post). John McCabe's original
post was a classical troll, the kind that works by aggravating people
into replying, even before there is anything of substance to reply to.

The other kind of troll lures people with an irresistable promise (e.g. 
"I have XXX pictures free, but don't email me, post to this newsgroup
if you want me to send a copy to you"), but it's hard to figure out
a positive troll of this kind that would work on CLA. I suppose if
early on we had posted something like

"Free copy of Ada 95 compiler, post to this group if you want one",
we would have got a fair number of poeple taking the bite (but I
still don't think that we could match the appeal of XXX pictures :-)