Re: What is the best license to use for open source software?

["Jedi Tek'Unum" <jeditekunum@gmail.com>]

On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 7:16:08 PM UTC-6, David Botton wrote:
> > With Ada it is an entirely different story.  Vendors (mostly AdaCore) need revenue on the tools themselves because that is all they have for assets.  Their market is very small and not going to grow - they already have the customers who need it.
> 
> Actually, it is not that different at all. AdaCore does near zero R&D unless requested and paid for (at least in large part) directly by a customer. So the only difference is who does the actual development. With C/C++, etc. the customers themselves do the dev work in the case of Ada it is AdaCore generally being outsourced for the work to support some project and the AdaCore supporting the result for them and others interested.
> 
> AdaCore doesn't make money on the compiler (even they though are confused about what actual product they are selling sometimes), their product is support contracts, i.e. they are selling resources and talent.

It is still selling resources/talent for a toolset.  I'm not sure who the customers of C/C++ are that are doing the dev work.  Certainly not the end-users like me.  Apple invests in their toolset simply because it needs it to support its other development and 3rd party developers who reinforce their ecosystem.  Same for Oracle and anybody else selling platforms (including RedHat).  The fact that those toolsets are also available to everyone else for free (maybe noncommercial use for some like Oracle) is just another thing they have to do to support the ecosystem.  Its the ecosystem, completely separate from toolsets that they make their money on.

These companies understand that these investments are necessary to make money elsewhere.  Even OSX has become free (granted one is paying for it indirectly in higher hardware cost).

Bottom line is there is no longer a direct link between a programming language and revenue - except for Ada.  And there appears to be no FOSS community capability to evolve Ada on a broad scale.  Which was my original point.  I suppose if AdaCore were to vanish that such a capability may emerge if nothing else from the talent that is available as a result.

> > Its disappointing that Ada is locked into this niche and shows little potential to break out.
> 
> It is not "locked" in and I don't believe it has little potential to break out. If that was the case I would not have created Gnoga or continue towards my goals of opening the Ada market beyond that niche, nor would many others bother with their efforts to make Ada available with out a virus.

It is all a point of perspective - people in this forum are on the inside as it were.  Those not already deep into it have a different view.

I can get past the pain of learning a new language.  I can even get past the pain of custom toolset generation or hunting/gathering the results of contributors here.  What I can't get past at the moment is writing a lot of code (even personal hobby stuff) that may be problematic down the road.

> > Most believe "good enough" is just that and refuse to spend anything on something better.
> 
> Not 100% true, the issue is that speed to market today is more important than initial quality for most non-safety critical systems.
> 
> That however is Ada's greatest value, minimal additional development time for considerable improvements in quality and long term maintainability. 

Having worked at a fortune-500 software company before retiring I can say there is 0 chance of them considering anything other than C/C++ (and some Java).  One could prove a 50% reduction in overall cost and defects and it wouldn't matter.  Its all about being sheep and following the masses.

> > Back to the race to the bottom...
> 
> I don't feel until you contribute time and product, "damnation" is your right... but being from the US, say what you will and me and the posy working to change things for the better despite the stumbling blocks and not just muck raking will dance on your words when things materialize for the better ;)
> 
> I challenge you to make a difference :)

Sorry, I wasn't referring to Ada - I was referring to computing in general.

I hope you are right but I don't think I'm going to stick around to help.  I've spent a career bloodying my head against immovable walls like this.  Life is too short.