Re: A few questions on Ada and Ada implementations

[Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201012.rodent.frell.theremailer.net>]

> I also write software for a living; the organization where I work is a
> customer of AdaCore.  I use GNAT Pro and GtkAda, delivered to us under a
> license that permits redistribution in binary-only form.  Since we do
> not distribute our software, we don't care about that.  What we really
> pay for is the support.

Lucky you! As they say, it's better to have it and not need it, then to
need it and not have it- the ability to distribute royalty-free binaries,
that is!

> However, most of my postings on this newsgroup are done in my hobbyist
> capacity.  I use GCC (the library of which BTW is "unencumbered") at
> home.  The only reason why I distribute my software is to enhance my
> reputation as a software engineer; therefore I insist that my beautiful
> source code be visible to all :) That's why the GPL is a perfect choice
> for me.

All well and good but your beautiful source could still be available if you
used a BSD or MIT license, wouldn't it not? The only difference is what
happens next.

gcc-Ada is great but what happens when they pull the plug and change the
runtime to GPL instead of LGPL? I'm coming to see I'll need many other
components to write a viable product and those may not be available with
licenses I'm happy with.

> So, I do not really buy your justification that you need "unencumbered"
> licenses at home because "in the business [you] work in", libraries are
> unencumbered.  Are yo sure you're really a hobbyist and not a commercial
> entity exploring ways to reduce your development costs compared to other
> languages?  Both are perfecly OK but the priorities are different.

Yes, I'm quite sure what I said was accurate and honest. My thinking until
I read the replies here was based on some assumptions that aren't correct
on the PC platform and and also based on the fact that until now I haven't
sold application software but rather systems software. That makes a big
difference because it means we don't have to rely on third party software,
middleware, databases, etc. at all from the point of supporting them to
make our product work. It's just us and the OS. Apparently it's not
reasonable to sell any kind of PC product without some prereqs. I'm simply
not used to this model and I'm sure my questions sound strange to those who
are.

In anything that I do I don't want to rely on encumbered products because
it will mean I'll have a porting job ahead of me if I did decide to try to
sell it, and possibly have to find replacement products where ones with
agreeable (to me) license terms weren't available or even face significant
code changes to support entirely new replacements for what was working
before. And to be quite honest I don't want any benefit from anything I
haven't paid for, especially not if it obliges me to who provides it. If
someone wants to give something away with no obligations and say thanks,
I'm all for it. I've done a lot of it myself.

Whatever I would do on the PC would significantly reduce my development
costs as opposed to the unaffordable platform I work on now- even if I
bought Green Hills which is so dear to them they refused to discuss pricing
with me! I couldn't afford to do the work I do now as a private party, only
big companies are involved in the area we work in and I get to use their
resources as part of the deal. Because I've been in my market a long time
and know the way the customers think and work, I know that I couldn't sell
something based on encumbered libraries or products or open source
code. They're all into proprietary software and don't mind paying for
it. This is where I'm coming from with my questions.


> > [...] Again, I'm asking about a complete, unencumbered solution for 64
> > bit Linux, and it would be nice if it could generate code for Windows
> > as well, but not essential. I want to be able to write and debug code,
> > have a capable GUI, and have a good database all in the
> > solution. Proprietary GUI and database are goodness in my view. If
> > such a thing exists I guess it's not cheap! If pricing info (and more
> > details about what exactly is included, in non-jargon) were more
> > available on various sites I guess we could have saved some time
> > here. Thanks for everybody's responses and sorry if I have wasted your
> > time.
> 
> I'm sorry to say that, TTBOMK, what you seek does not exist yet.

Thanks. Clarity is good.

> Several subsets of what you want do exist, however.  I think you should
> investigate the various vendor offerings and decide base on what you're
> willing to forego.

Sounds quite right. I'll keep trying a bit longer.

> > Because of my posting setup many times messages get lost or delayed. I
> > am sending this more than once since it didn't get posted the last few
> > times. 
> 
> Do you use a proprietary newsreader? (sorry, couldn't resist).

Well I don't post through my newsreader, if that helps clarify the
situation ;-) Separate reading and posting, it's the UNIX way, isn't it?