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From: vincent.diemunsch@gmail.com
Subject: Re: {Pre,Post}conditions and side effects
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 05:08:32 -0700 (PDT)
Date: 2015-04-25T05:08:32-07:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ce4af31e-d491-479f-a5b3-0b3eedea2a68@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <871tj9dp5b.fsf@theworld.com>

Le samedi 25 avril 2015 02:31:57 UTC+2, Bob Duff a écrit :

> Same reason we put comments in the code.  Comments are not "essential
> program logic" in the sense defined above -- if you delete all the
> comments, the program will still work.  But we still want comments.
> Likewise, one should normally write assertions (like Pre and Predicate)
> so the program still works if they are deleted.
> 
> Assertions are like comments, except we have a higher confidence
> that they are actually true.
> 

I agree. Assertions express logical properties of the program. One can have a high
confidence in them for two reasons :
1. mathematical correctness according to a given theory
2. proof that the code is coherent with the assertion, using a tool.

But Assertions should stay as comments, for they are not code but logical formula expressed
in a mathematical langage. They were comments in Spark 05 and it is still the case in Frama-C
or many formal proof systems. Hoare logic is supposed to give "correctness by construction" : 
which is the ability to never fail on a runtime test. This is required in safety critical systems.

But what Ada and SPARK 2014 are doing is "design by contract", as Bertrand Meyer 
called it. This makes a confusion between a precondition and a runtime test. It may
look appealing in the beginning but it is nothing else than a test harness put around
a subprogram. With all the problems related to it : how to debug it ? Should it raise
exceptions ? It breaks the separation between specification and implementation etc.
Therefore, I don't think that it is the right choice for a langage that is mainly used in
safety critical systems.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.lang.ada/future$20of$20spark/comp.lang.ada/klr0i37j0uk/5IeGMdlh7PYJ

Kind regards,

Vincent


  reply	other threads:[~2015-04-25 12:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-12-22 16:22 {Pre,Post}conditions and side effects Jean François Martinez
2014-12-22 17:18 ` Brad Moore
2014-12-23  8:22   ` Jean François Martinez
2014-12-23 17:05     ` Robert A Duff
2014-12-23 21:09       ` Jean François Martinez
2014-12-23 21:35         ` Robert A Duff
2014-12-23 23:02         ` Peter Chapin
2014-12-24  1:03           ` Robert A Duff
2015-04-24  8:59             ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-04-24  9:18               ` J-P. Rosen
2015-04-24 23:39                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-24 12:10               ` G.B.
2015-04-24 14:40                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-04-24 16:29                   ` G.B.
2015-04-24 23:46                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-24 22:26               ` Peter Chapin
2015-04-25  0:13                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-25  1:01                   ` Peter Chapin
2015-04-25  5:51                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-04-25  0:31               ` Bob Duff
2015-04-25 12:08                 ` vincent.diemunsch [this message]
2015-04-25 16:37                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-06 21:07                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-06 22:10                     ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-07  9:01                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-07  9:12                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-07  9:29                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-07  9:31                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-07 18:32                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-08  7:50                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-08 23:31                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-09  6:16                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-12  0:28                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12  8:04                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-07 10:06                     ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-07 12:16                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-07 18:00                         ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-07 19:01                           ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-07 19:29                             ` Niklas Holsti
2015-05-08 23:16                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-09  5:18                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2015-05-12  0:15                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-07 19:55                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-08 23:24                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-09  5:47                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-07 18:52                       ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-07 19:40                         ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-08  7:28                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-08 22:58                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-08 22:52                           ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-09  0:14                             ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-12  0:30                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12 18:10                                 ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-12 22:01                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-13  9:35                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-13 11:53                                       ` G.B.
2015-05-13 12:47                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-13 14:06                                           ` G.B.
2015-05-13 14:21                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-13 16:33                                               ` G.B.
2015-05-13 19:15                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-14  1:36                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-14  7:10                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-14  1:32                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-14  7:19                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-05-12  0:36                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-11 10:35                             ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-11 21:49                               ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-11 22:49                                 ` Peter Chapin
2015-05-12  4:49                                   ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-12 23:25                                     ` Peter Chapin
2015-05-13  9:00                                       ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-12  4:42                                 ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-12 14:53                                   ` johnscpg
2015-05-13  9:14                                     ` vincent.diemunsch
2015-05-12  1:03                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12  7:21                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-12 22:08                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12  8:02                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-12 22:14                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-12  8:37                                 ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-12 11:25                                   ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-12 18:44                                     ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-12 20:52                                       ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-18  9:49                                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-05-18 12:10                                       ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-19  7:46                                         ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-06-09  7:55                                           ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-06-09 12:02                                             ` G.B.
2015-06-09 17:16                                               ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-12 18:39                                   ` Paul Rubin
2015-05-12 20:51                                     ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-05-12 14:21                                 ` Bob Duff
2015-05-12 22:37                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-13  6:58                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-14  1:21                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-07 21:29                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-05-08 23:11                           ` Randy Brukardt
2015-05-08 23:19                             ` tmoran
2014-12-23 21:53   ` Florian Weimer
2014-12-24 11:41     ` Brad Moore
2014-12-22 19:38 ` sbelmont700
2014-12-22 19:59   ` Brad Moore
2014-12-22 23:46   ` Randy Brukardt
2014-12-23 10:41   ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-12-22 23:32 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-04-24 17:59   ` Shark8
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