Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language)

["Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>]

Marin David Condic wrote:

> A manager's reasons for selecting a language are not necessarily
> "supreme" - other than in the sense that ultimately, they have to make
> the decision and be responsible for the net effect so their reasons
> trump those of the technocrat. Also, often, the manager is operating on
> the recommendations of his staff - who are technical - and they have
> reasons to want to use something other than Ada as well. The manager's
> reasons are also not "unknowable". Usually, all you have to do is ask.

Someone as genius as Dr.Freud could probably understand their answers...
(:-))

> When I try to persuade those above me or my customers that Ada is
> technically superior and they should choose it, I take time to listen
> when they say "Yes, but....."
> 
> As it turns out, the reasons they have are - as you observe - not
> "technical" in nature. They are usually more practical business
> concerns. (And lest we all forget, business concerns are important
> because without paying attention to them, we're all out of jobs.) Try
> some of these:
> 
> "People I interview for jobs don't know Ada and don't want to know Ada -
> they want to use languages they like & will be marketable. How do I hire
> the programmers I need?"

Firstly, it is his job to hire people. If it cannot do his job, he should
look for another.

Secondly, time to time I interview people. It is true that almost nobody
knows Ada. But the truth also is that good people have no problems with
that. While bad people are bad in any language. Many managers tend to think
that any problem can be solved by doubling the resources. It is an
incompetence.

> "My staff doesn't like Ada and I don't want to force them to use
> something they don't like because they won't be as productive."

Honestly, I never met any opposition to Ada from the side of CS
professionals and programmers. It was always engineers grown to the
managing positions having no CS background. Though this cannot count as a
statistical observation, of course.

> "Industry in general ignores Ada so I can't get the tools I need - or I
> can only at a much higher cost..."

It is a silly argument, if one compares the price of a tool with the salary
of a programmer. The problem is that the advantage of higher productivity
is not directly seen.

> "Other, more popular languages, come with things that give me leverage
> in developing the product I need so I get to market sooner..."

They also make me dependent on third party products, which quality is
questionable. A wrong choice may lead to project collapse. [I saw one] A
certification of all alien software components is very expensive,
unreliable and delays the project.

> "I've already got existing software in Language X and all the related
> things I have to connect to are in Language X, so why do I want to incur
> the extra cost of using some other language?"

This is a real argument. Many software houses have home grown libraries etc.
So I am absolutely on your side, when you are promoting a larger standard
Ada environment. That could really change the situation here.

I would also like to see JGNAT revived and more progress in A#.

> 'Ada is a dying language and I need to use something that is going to
> have a future..."

I do not think that a manager really cares. Once the project is done, it is
no matter whether Ada will die or not.

> There are obviously more but the important thing is that these concerns
> are *REAL* and *VALID* - if not *TECHNICAL*. So if Ada doesn't want to
> just slowly go down the toilet, it ought to look to addressing the
> concerns of that manager voicing those objections. Telling him he's
> wrong and stupid is only going to get you dismissed as a kook because he
> *knows* his concerns are legetimate and important. Why not address those
> concerns and take the language in a new direction that might start
> alleviating some of them?

If you reread arguments of your "virtual" manager you will see that most of
them are related the view on Ada. Improvements of Ada (though I wished
them) cannot change that. One need a great promotion campaign. One need Ada
being taught in universities.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
www.dmitry-kazakov.de