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From: <adaworks@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Use of declare blocks
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:59:05 -0800
Date: 2007-03-22T09:59:05-08:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <bByMh.11141$P47.10468@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: ets49o$m8j$1@jacob-sparre.dk

When I say they "ought to be used minimally," I am speaking
from the experience of seeing programmers at former client
sites who used them maximally.

There are several problems with declare blocks.

           1)  They often lead to ad hoc designs,
           2)  They often become long passages of code
                 extending over many pages,
           3)  They look like procedures

It is quite easy in Ada to promote a declare block to a
subprogram and in-line it.  This often has the effect of
inspiring the designer of that declare block to think it
through a bit more carefully.   Sometimes it results in
improving the overall design of the final set of programs.

I recall one aerospace user of Ada in California where the
programmers sprinkled declare blocks all through their code,
almost in a stream-of-consciousness fashion.

When used by someone such as Randy, a programmer who
uses every construct with care and intelligence, the declare
block is not a primay design structure but a way of bringing
subtle refinement to an already good design.

When used in place of careful planning, as it often is, or as an
afterthought, as it often is, the declare block can do more to
muddle the understanding of a piece of code than to improve it.

That being said, Ada blocks, including declare blocks, do have the
virtue that they are well-bounded, can be named, are rigorous in
their obedience to the underlying rules of the language, and useful
in those rare circumstances where they make sense.

Finally.   I have noticed over the past forty + years of being a
programmer that the people who make up rules for programmers
tend to be people who no longer write programs, or, in some cases,
never have written any programs.  I would not want anyone to think
I am making up a rule about declare blocks.  I do maintain my
view that they need to be used sparingly, and sometimes
promoted to in-lined procedures -- but this is not a rule.

Richard Riehle

================================================

"Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> wrote in message 
news:ets49o$m8j$1@jacob-sparre.dk...
> <adaworks@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:4eeMh.16400$bb1.2557@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
> ...
>>Units
>> in Ada, including declare blocks (which ought to be used minimally)
>> have the option of being named.
>
> While I generally agree with Richard, I certainly don't agree on the "ought
> to be used minimally" here.
>
> I use declare blocks extensively to reduce the scope of temporary variables
> in subprograms. They're especially important when the object exists just to
> take an unused out parameter, because they greatly reduce the need to come
> up with names for the objects. I often have code like:
>
>    declare
>            Junk : Index;
>    begin
>            Insert_Something (..., Result => Junk);
>    end;
>
> where the result isn't needed by the following code. (Sure, one could argue
> that the underlying library should be improved to avoid the need for this,
> but that isn't always possible and in any case changes to widely used
> specifications shouldn't be made lightly. And this is just one example, any
> sort of temporary has these sorts of requirements.)
>
> The advantage is that if in the future you find that you no longer need the
> temporary, you can remove it without heavy code analysis: it is used only in
> the one place and there is no worries that it might be reused, or have a
> side-effect, or the like.
>
>                        Randy.
>
>
>
> 





  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-03-22 17:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 167+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <1172144043.746296.44680@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
     [not found] ` <slrnetr31o.875.Marc.Boyer@localhost.localdomain>
     [not found]   ` <1172161751.573558.24140@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
     [not found]     ` <slrnetri6j.875.Marc.Boyer@localhost.localdomain>
     [not found]       ` <546qkhF1tr7dtU1@mid.individual.net>
2007-02-23  8:09         ` why learn C? Marc Boyer
2007-03-20 17:37           ` adaworks
2007-03-21  8:07             ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-03-21 13:39               ` Martin Krischik
2007-03-22  7:54                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-03-21 14:10               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-21 17:57                 ` adaworks
2007-03-21 18:48               ` adaworks
2007-03-21 18:39                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-21 20:09                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-21 20:25                 ` Use of declare blocks Randy Brukardt
2007-03-21 20:36                   ` Gautier
2007-03-21 20:37                   ` Gautier
2007-03-21 20:43                   ` Niklas Holsti
2007-03-21 21:29                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-22  1:17                       ` Adam Beneschan
2007-03-22  8:34                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-03-22  1:06                   ` Adam Beneschan
2007-03-22 17:59                   ` adaworks [this message]
2007-03-23  2:35                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-23  5:23                       ` adaworks
2007-03-23  5:15                         ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-23 10:20                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-23 18:25                             ` commenting, was " tmoran
2007-03-24  0:32                               ` adaworks
2007-03-24  2:12                                 ` tmoran
2007-03-24  3:19                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-24  7:36                                     ` tmoran
2007-03-24 15:35                                       ` Simon Wright
2007-03-21 13:29             ` why learn C? Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-03-30  0:51             ` kevin  cline
2007-03-30  4:09               ` Steve
2007-03-30  4:58                 ` kevin  cline
2007-03-30  7:44                   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2007-03-30  9:09                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02  4:29                       ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02  6:45                         ` adaworks
2007-04-02  7:52                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02  8:19                           ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02 12:04                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02 23:37                             ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03 12:42                               ` Erasing inappropriate operations (was: why learn C?) Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-03 23:44                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-04  8:34                                   ` Erasing inappropriate operations Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-04 22:00                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03  0:16                         ` why learn C? Markus E Leypold
2007-04-04 16:14                           ` jayessay
2007-04-05  7:14                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-05 15:35                               ` jayessay
2007-04-06  2:02                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06  5:57                                   ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-06 11:01                                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-07 23:00                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-08 19:41                                         ` jayessay
2007-04-09 14:08                                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 15:48                                           ` jayessay
2007-04-08 19:44                                       ` jayessay
2007-04-06 18:05                                     ` jayessay
2007-04-06 22:00                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06 23:46                                         ` jayessay
2007-04-06 23:59                                         ` jayessay
2007-04-06 22:16                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-06 23:52                                       ` jayessay
2007-04-07  0:39                                         ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-06 17:52                                   ` jayessay
2007-03-30  8:29                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30  8:35                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 17:39                   ` adaworks
2007-03-31 14:59                     ` Steve
2007-03-31 15:59                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 14:32                         ` Ed Falis
2007-04-02  7:03                         ` adaworks
2007-03-31 15:14                     ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-02  5:27                     ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02  6:04                       ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-04-02  6:33                       ` Shortage on C / C++ experts Martin Krischik
2007-04-02  7:07                       ` why learn C? adaworks
2007-04-02  7:18                         ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02 13:00                       ` adaworks
2007-04-12 15:28                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 18:32                           ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-13 15:59                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-14 22:20                               ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 22:46                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-22 18:53                           ` adaworks
2007-04-22 19:50                             ` Gautier
2007-04-03  0:26                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-03  0:34                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-03  2:22                       ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-12 15:47                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:18                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-13 23:18                             ` kevin  cline
2007-04-14  9:38                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-14 10:57                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 15:10                                 ` Simon Wright
2007-04-15 16:05                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15  0:59                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-15 15:28                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12 16:39                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 20:54                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 20:33                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 21:40                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 20:50                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-13  0:32                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-14 22:27                                     ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14  1:20                           ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-02  5:03                   ` Brian May
2007-04-02  6:16                     ` kevin  cline
2007-04-03  0:00                       ` Brian May
2007-04-12 15:56                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:19                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-13 23:42                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-03  0:13                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-02 11:47                 ` Shortage on C / C++ experts Larry Kilgallen
2007-04-02 12:01                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-02 12:15                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-02 18:47                       ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-04-02 20:43                         ` tmoran
2007-03-30  4:52               ` why learn C? jimmaureenrogers
2007-03-30  6:30                 ` Case Crab
2007-03-30  6:37                   ` Gautier
2007-03-30  9:17                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-31 13:18                     ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-01  1:23                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-01 11:59                         ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-02  6:37                       ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02  9:39                         ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-03-30 17:47                   ` adaworks
2007-03-30 19:25                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30 20:29                     ` Randy Brukardt
2007-03-31  9:52                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-01  1:35                       ` adaworks
2007-03-31  2:41                   ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-03-31 12:25                     ` not NASA Ada coding standard Stephen Leake
2007-03-31 15:44                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 16:22                       ` Simon Clubley
2007-04-02 10:08                         ` Stephen Leake
2007-04-02  7:43                     ` why learn C? kevin  cline
2007-04-02  8:45                       ` Martin Krischik
2007-04-02 10:54                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-12 16:05                         ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 16:48                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 18:27                           ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-13 16:21                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 21:11                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-13 15:45                             ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-02  8:13                     ` kevin  cline
2007-04-02 23:54                       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-03  2:58                       ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-12 16:24                       ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-12 18:05                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15  0:55                           ` Hyman Rosen
2007-04-15  7:55                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-15 15:25                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-31 11:40                 ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                 ` <1175236212.771445.135460@y66g2Organization: LJK Software <c82IfUV$xbi8@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2007-03-31 18:56                   ` adaworks
2007-03-31 20:10                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-01 18:13                       ` tmoran
2007-03-31 19:33                   ` Cesar Rabak
2007-03-31 20:11                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30  8:16               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-30  9:10               ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-03-30 19:16               ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-01 11:41                 ` Martin Krischik
2007-04-01 17:03                   ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-01 18:13                   ` tmoran
2007-04-16  2:09             ` Brian May
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