* Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)
2016-02-19 17:18 ` Tero Koskinen
@ 2016-02-19 18:56 ` Shark8
2016-02-20 0:19 ` Olivier Henley
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Shark8 @ 2016-02-19 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
While I agree that the Ada community tends to be a bit more deliberative, there are some serious problems with the "shut up and hack" mindset.
One of my former co-workers had the ability to do VERY quick coding, very useful for the "we need a [temporary] fix NOW!"-solutions... but even though he was quick, he often applied superficial 'solutions', like suggesting that CSV could be handled with string-splitting on commas.
For a community that generally wants to "do the right thing" (real software engineering), I think it's a good thing to try to find out what the right thing IS.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread* Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)
2016-02-19 17:18 ` Tero Koskinen
2016-02-19 18:56 ` Shark8
@ 2016-02-20 0:19 ` Olivier Henley
2016-02-20 0:35 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2016-02-20 19:16 ` Georg Bauhaus
2016-02-20 1:46 ` Olivier Henley
2016-02-21 11:13 ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
3 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Olivier Henley @ 2016-02-20 0:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Friday, February 19, 2016 at 12:18:17 PM UTC-5, Tero Koskinen wrote:
> I think one "problem" Ada community has, is the endless discussions
> about what should be done.
One week of discussion for a community plan/effort is not what I call endless.
> I like the "Shut up and hack" mentality of (Open)BSD and how *BSD people
> do stuff instead of just discussing about it.
The hacking culture brought us exactly where we are; A computer driven society plagued with bugs.
-All my 'latest generation smartphones' suffered crazy episodes from time to time.
-The tech pipeline at my job is choking on me 3-4 times a day minimum.
-At home, my brand new installed debian box explodes at least once every two weeks.
-When my gnoga driven website behaves weird the problem ALWAYS comes from the client side (JS, C++ and friends)
What about "Death to hacking! Design then program."?
> For example, check Synth, package manager for *BSDs, written by John
> Marino using Ada:
> https://github.com/jrmarino/synth
1. Check the diagrams at the end of the readme... it makes up a design.
2. To me he looks more like a "navy seal" of programming than a "baroque proser using a computer". https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinojr
my two cents.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)
2016-02-20 0:19 ` Olivier Henley
@ 2016-02-20 0:35 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2016-02-20 19:16 ` Georg Bauhaus
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Jeffrey R. Carter @ 2016-02-20 0:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 02/19/2016 05:19 PM, Olivier Henley wrote:
> On Friday, February 19, 2016 at 12:18:17 PM UTC-5, Tero Koskinen wrote:
>
>> I like the "Shut up and hack" mentality of (Open)BSD and how *BSD people
>> do stuff instead of just discussing about it.
>
> The hacking culture brought us exactly where we are; A computer driven society plagued with bugs.
I'm not a fan of "Shut up and hack", either, but I think one can make a point
for "Shut up and design."
> 1. Check the diagrams at the end of the readme... it makes up a design.
This seems like an example of SUAD.
--
Jeff Carter
"You empty-headed animal-food-trough wiper."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
04
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)
2016-02-20 0:19 ` Olivier Henley
2016-02-20 0:35 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
@ 2016-02-20 19:16 ` Georg Bauhaus
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2016-02-20 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 20.02.16 01:19, Olivier Henley wrote:
> What about "Death to hacking! Design then program."?
Balancing all of this is what makes consulting work (in many senses).
--
"HOTDOGS ARE NOT BOOKMARKS"
Springfield Elementary teaching staff
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)
2016-02-19 17:18 ` Tero Koskinen
2016-02-19 18:56 ` Shark8
2016-02-20 0:19 ` Olivier Henley
@ 2016-02-20 1:46 ` Olivier Henley
2016-02-21 11:13 ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Olivier Henley @ 2016-02-20 1:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Friday, February 19, 2016 at 12:18:17 PM UTC-5, Tero Koskinen wrote:
> https://github.com/jrmarino/synth
>
> Yours,
> Tero
btw, thx for the reference.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)
2016-02-19 17:18 ` Tero Koskinen
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2016-02-20 1:46 ` Olivier Henley
@ 2016-02-21 11:13 ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
3 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Alejandro R. Mosteo @ 2016-02-21 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 19/02/16 18:18, Tero Koskinen wrote:
> 19.2.2016, 4.11, Randy Brukardt wrote:
>> "Shark8" <onewingedshark@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:b27acb57-59dc-49f6-afa0-f13ebc9a7462@googlegroups.com...
>>> We've started to disscuss the design of an Ada project-manager. We'd
>>> love
>>> more involvement from the community, as I think thiss could be a
>>> chance to
>>> really show off Ada's strengths.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/mosteo/alire/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue
>>
>> I think I said more than enough on the topic here, and I need to do more
>> work and less community time. So I won't be joining your discussion now.
>> Hopefully someone will package up some of my thoughts for your
>> discussion.
>>
>> Randy.
>
> I think one "problem" Ada community has, is the endless discussions
> about what should be done.
>
> I like the "Shut up and hack" mentality of (Open)BSD and how *BSD people
> do stuff instead of just discussing about it.
Linus dixit: https://lkml.org/lkml/2000/8/25/132
> For example, check Synth, package manager for *BSDs, written by John
> Marino using Ada:
> https://github.com/jrmarino/synth
That project looks great, thanks for the pointer.
>
> Yours,
> Tero
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread