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From: "Marin David Condic" <mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org>
Subject: Re: Anybody in US using ADA ?
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:45:32 -0500
Date: 2003-01-02T12:44:35+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <av1c7j$ctl$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: VfKQ9.193788$qF3.13607@sccrnsc04

I never said it was "right" - just "reality". :-) I agree, if one is
contemplating a new system from bottom-dead-center then one ought to
consider all of the inputs and decide what provides the best solution. But
new systems from bottom-dead-center are the exception. Almost always, you're
dealing with evolutionary growth or enhancement of some existing system or a
new project living within an existing context. Hence someone already has a
big investment in infrastructure that isn't going to get discarded just
because there exists some superior technology somewhere. (Example: A bank
needs some new accounting package that must operate on its existing
mainframe(s) & peripherials, against its existing database, maintained by
its existing staff, etc. They already have an OS, a Cobol compiler, a
database product and a heavy investment in tools, utilities, libraries, etc.
to operate here and the new system has to interact with the existing
applications. What are the odds someone is going to talk them into switching
to Ada for that new development?)

Maybe that's part of why there was/is a lot of resentment toward Ada. It
walked in the door with a mandate and everyone had big investments in other
things and the feeling was "This is going to cost me truckloads in
discarding my existing investment and for what? An uncertain 'technical
advantage'? Why are they trying to make my life harder?"

This is why Ada's best hope would be to attach itself to some new, emerging
technology where it doesn't have to displace existing technology and can
itself become the entrenched status quo. Barring that, it has to find some
groundswell of usage out in the hacker world so that there is some large
infrastructure of practical things in use that keep it afloat. (Another
version of "new technology") I don't see it doing either one unless it
offers the world some significant edge over the existing technology and
"reduced errors" isn't selling. "Time to market" probably would.

MDC
--
======================================================================
Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jast.mil/

Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g

    "I'd trade it all for just a little more"
        --  Charles Montgomery Burns, [4F10]
======================================================================

<tmoran@acm.org> wrote in message news:VfKQ9.193788$qF3.13607@sccrnsc04...
> > Job postings try to look for very specific skills
>   The necessary implication being that the design has already been
> frozen - "we will be using this language, that database, this kind
> of UI, ...".
>   I read an interesting essay recently that pointed out that color TV,
> UHF, and cable were all technically feasible in 1948 when TVs were in less
> than 1% of American households.  But we had three black and white VHF
> network channels for a very long time because of industry structure&power
> reasons.  I suppose there were lots of job postings for B/W VHF tuner
> designers, and few for people who knew UHF etc.





  reply	other threads:[~2003-01-02 12:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 330+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-31 18:37 Anybody in US using ADA ? Mr Bill
2002-12-31 18:55 ` John R. Strohm
2003-01-01  3:20   ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-01  7:11     ` tmoran
2003-01-01 14:31       ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-01 22:49         ` tmoran
2003-01-02 12:45           ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2003-01-02 18:08             ` Anybody in US using ADA ? New language competition? Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-03  2:47               ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-03  6:01                 ` Robert C. Leif
2003-01-03 17:58                 ` Anybody in US using ADA ? New language competition? (long) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-04 14:57                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-06 15:53                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-06 16:36                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-01-06 20:47                       ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07 13:15                         ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-07 19:05                           ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07 19:37                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-01-07 20:52                             ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-08 20:05                               ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07 21:23                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-01-08  0:30                             ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-08 20:12                               ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07 13:11                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-06 18:22                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-06 20:52                       ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07 13:56                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-07 19:15                           ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-08 13:14                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-08 18:04                               ` tmoran
2003-01-08 18:05                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-08 20:20                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-01-09 13:21                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-08 20:24                               ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-09 13:34                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-07 13:50                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-07 17:48                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-08 13:34                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-08 18:04                             ` tmoran
2003-01-08 18:16                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-09 13:22                         ` chris.danx
2003-01-09 13:53                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-09 15:09                           ` Raster graphics [was Anybody in US using ADA ? New language competition? (long)] Chad R. Meiners
2003-01-11 19:23                             ` chris.danx
2003-01-03  9:57             ` Anybody in US using ADA ? Kevin Cline
2003-01-03 12:37               ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-03 15:32                 ` Anybody in US using ADA ? | for interrest Mark
2003-01-09  0:59                 ` Anybody in US using ADA ? faust
2003-01-08 12:53                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-05 17:04           ` Adrian Hoe
2003-01-06 20:06             ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07  2:07             ` Jeffrey Creem
2003-01-07  3:22               ` Jeffrey Creem
2003-01-05 17:06         ` Adrian Hoe
2003-01-02  3:05       ` faust
2003-01-02  3:07       ` faust
2003-01-02 22:09       ` Robert C. Leif
2003-01-02 17:57     ` Anybody in US using ADA ? One silly idea Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-02 18:29       ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-01-02 22:02         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-02 20:36       ` Bill Findlay
     [not found]         ` <ujn2va.go3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-01-03  1:44           ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-09  2:21           ` faust
2003-01-03  2:56         ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-03  4:11           ` sk
2003-01-03  4:43           ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-03  6:01             ` Robert C. Leif
2003-01-07 17:47               ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-07 19:49                 ` tmoran
2003-01-09  5:15                   ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-03 13:16             ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-03 18:28               ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-04 15:17                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-09 16:36                 ` faust
     [not found]                   ` <roliva.8b4.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-01-09  4:32                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-03 20:07               ` tmoran
2003-01-03 23:06                 ` Martin Dowie
2003-01-09 16:22                   ` faust
2003-01-04  7:07                 ` Robert C. Leif
2003-01-04 17:49                   ` Steve
2003-01-05  3:07                     ` Robert C. Leif
2003-01-07 12:38               ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-09 16:36                 ` faust
2003-01-09 16:37                 ` Harness your own creativity to Ada (Re: Anybody in US using ADA ? One silly idea..) faust
2003-01-03  9:24         ` Anybody in US using ADA ? One silly idea Kevin Cline
2003-01-03 10:11           ` John R. Strohm
2003-01-03 13:23             ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-03 18:40               ` John R. Strohm
2003-01-04  9:05                 ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-04 16:34                   ` John R. Strohm
2003-01-03 19:40             ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-03 22:34           ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-04  8:53             ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-04 11:48               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-04 18:15                 ` Robert A Duff
2003-01-04 20:18                 ` Hillel Y. Sims
2003-01-05 14:13                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-05 15:45                     ` James S. Rogers
2003-01-06 14:13                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-06  1:20                     ` Hillel Y. Sims
2003-01-06 14:14                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-06 19:07                         ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07 12:33                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-08  4:24                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-08 13:55                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-08 18:43                                 ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-08 21:54                                 ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-09  5:05                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-06  1:37                     ` Robert C. Leif
2003-01-06 14:13                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-06 19:13                         ` Pascal Obry
2003-01-07 12:02                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-07  3:00                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-07 12:10                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-08  3:41                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-08 13:19                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-09  4:23                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-10 13:51                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-13 17:05                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-15 17:04                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-15 17:23                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-15 18:19                                           ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-15 19:02                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-15 19:11                                               ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-15 22:51                                                 ` chris.danx
2003-01-15 23:39                                                   ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-15 23:57                                                     ` chris.danx
2003-01-16  0:32                                                       ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-16  5:23                                                         ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-16 16:33                                                           ` One sillier idea Wes Groleau
2003-01-16 17:17                                                             ` sk
2003-01-16 17:11                                                           ` Anybody in US using ADA ? One silly idea Hyman Rosen
2003-01-16 17:50                                                             ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-16 17:57                                                             ` Frank J. Lhota
2003-01-16 18:26                                                               ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-17  8:27                                                                 ` Anders Wirzenius
     [not found]                                                                 ` <h0770b.5e3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-01-17 17:32                                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-17 17:31                                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-16  0:19                                             ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-16  0:16                                               ` chris.danx
2003-01-16  0:46                                                 ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-16  1:19                                                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-01-16  2:44                                                 ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-16  0:24                                               ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-16 10:34                                                 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2003-01-16 18:20                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-16 18:59                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-17  4:09                                               ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-17 14:36                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-17 16:28                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-17 17:23                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-17 19:02                                                   ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-17 20:02                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-25  1:40                                                       ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-26  4:57                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-18 12:31                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-18 22:53                                                     ` Hillel Y. Sims
2003-01-19  6:18                                                       ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-19 12:34                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-21  2:10                                                         ` Hillel Y. Sims
2003-01-21  9:25                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-21 18:55                                                             ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-23 11:00                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-23 16:27                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-25 11:53                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-26  6:32                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-27 10:11                                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-27 15:08                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-28  8:27                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-28 15:48                                                                             ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-28 16:29                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-28 17:14                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-29  8:28                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-28 17:11                                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-29  8:37                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-29 15:44                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-29 21:34                                                                                   ` Mark Biggar
2003-01-29 22:54                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-30  9:03                                                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-30 14:59                                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-30 16:32                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-30 17:58                                                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-31  8:31                                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-31 15:02                                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-31 16:12                                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-31 17:11                                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-03  9:59                                                                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-03 13:26                                                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-03 16:12                                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-03 17:00                                                                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-04  9:54                                                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-04 14:50                                                                                                                 ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-02-04 15:56                                                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-05 12:53                                                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-05 15:22                                                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-05  7:02                                                                                                                 ` Amir Yantimirov
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <en04h-1k4.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-02-04  9:48                                                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-04 10:10                                                                                                             ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-02-04 13:12                                                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-04 14:33                                                                                                                 ` Colin Paul Gloster
2003-02-04 15:22                                                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-04 16:47                                                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-04 15:10                                                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-05 12:53                                                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-05 15:35                                                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-04  7:04                                                                                                     ` AG
2003-02-03 12:34                                                                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-05  4:38                                                                                                         ` AG
2003-02-04 10:08                                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-30  8:09                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-30 15:01                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-30 16:33                                                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-30 17:12                                                                                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-01-31  8:51                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-31 15:04                                                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-30 18:01                                                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-31  8:38                                                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-31 15:11                                                                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-31 16:27                                                                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-31 17:25                                                                                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-03  9:59                                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-03 13:11                                                                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-03 14:40                                                                                                       ` Hyman Rosen
2003-02-04 10:11                                                                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-02-04  6:34                                                                                                 ` AG
2003-02-03 12:58                                                                                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-27 16:04                                                                 ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-19  3:42                                                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-19 12:34                                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-19 14:13                                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-20  8:43                                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-23 13:15                                                     ` please, please, please, Wes Groleau
2003-01-16 19:08                                             ` Anybody in US using ADA ? One silly idea Hyman Rosen
2003-01-17 16:28                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-17  4:03                                             ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-17 16:28                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-21  5:53                                                 ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-21  6:24                                                   ` tmoran
2003-01-16 19:09                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2003-01-15 22:48                                         ` Robert A Duff
2003-01-16 18:20                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-25 16:05                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-01-25 20:33                                           ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-27 13:29                                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-27 16:29                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-28 13:24                                             ` Robert A Duff
2003-01-28 17:16                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-28 18:44                                             ` Robert A Duff
2003-01-28 20:04                                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-07 13:51                         ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-08  3:51                           ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-06 16:33                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-01-06 16:23                     ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-06  4:20                 ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-06 14:16                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-01-06 16:08                   ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-06 17:26                     ` James S. Rogers
2003-01-07 13:36                       ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-07 18:40                       ` David C. Hoos
2003-01-07 21:29                         ` James S. Rogers
2003-01-07  3:14                     ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-07 13:40                       ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-08  4:30                         ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-04 18:04               ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-04 20:20                 ` Hillel Y. Sims
2003-01-05  2:47                   ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-05 23:58                     ` [OT] Mozilla filtering " chris.danx
2003-01-06  4:12                       ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-06 16:54                         ` chris.danx
2003-01-06 16:31                     ` [off-topic] spam-filters Wes Groleau
2003-01-06 19:23                       ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07  2:59                         ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-07 18:49                           ` Randy Brukardt
2003-01-07 20:38                             ` tmoran
2003-01-07 21:01                             ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-07  1:19                       ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-07 13:46                         ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-09 16:24                     ` Anybody in US using ADA ? One silly idea faust
2003-01-09 15:04                       ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-10 14:23                         ` faust
2003-01-11  5:44                           ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-11  5:48                             ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-06  4:39                 ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-06  9:49                   ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-03  0:07       ` Robert C. Leif
2003-01-03  2:51       ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-03 18:13         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-04 15:30           ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-07 12:58         ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-08 19:46       ` Remarketing the language ( was Re: ....ADA ? One silly idea..) faust
2003-01-08 18:24         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-08 18:42           ` Edi Weitz
2003-01-09 16:30           ` faust
2003-01-10  7:00             ` Fraser Wilson
2003-01-10  8:06               ` Geoffrey Summerhayes
2003-01-10 10:17                 ` Fraser Wilson
2003-01-02 18:29     ` Anybody in US using ADA ? Mike Silva
2003-01-03  0:41       ` David Emery
2003-01-03  6:44         ` Mike Silva
2003-01-03 10:16           ` John R. Strohm
2003-01-03 20:02             ` Mike Silva
2003-01-03 22:16               ` John R. Strohm
2003-01-04  8:31                 ` Mike Silva
2003-01-06 22:24   ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-06 23:45     ` Jerry van Dijk
2003-01-07 18:35     ` Mike Silva
2003-01-07 20:34       ` Jerry Petrey
2003-01-07 21:07         ` Dead Fred the Head Red
2003-01-09  2:14     ` faust
2003-01-09  2:15     ` C++ , ADA and the Joint Strike Fighter ( was Re: Anybody in US using ADA ?) faust
2003-01-08 13:21       ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-08 13:51         ` C++ , ADA and the Joint Strike Fighter ( was Re: Anybody in USusing " Marin David Condic
2003-01-08 21:42           ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-09 16:27           ` faust
2003-01-08 21:44             ` C++ , ADA and the Joint Strike Fighter Vinzent Hoefler
2003-01-10  7:58               ` faust
2003-01-09 14:34                 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-01-09 14:57                   ` C++ , ADA and the Joint Strike Fighter (Off-topic) Larry Kilgallen
2003-01-09 17:10                   ` C++ , ADA and the Joint Strike Fighter Pascal Obry
2003-01-10 14:18                   ` faust
2003-01-09 19:29                     ` C++ , ADA and the Joint Strike Fighter (Off-topic) Larry Kilgallen
2003-01-11 19:31                       ` chris.danx
2003-01-12 22:22                         ` u.r. faust
2003-01-12  9:07                           ` tmoran
2003-01-13  4:20                             ` u.r. faust
2003-01-13 13:25                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-01-11 22:10                     ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                     ` <H01kDjtzy1$7@eisneOrganization: LJK Software <oK$dhQDJBSHL@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2003-01-12 22:23                       ` u.r. faust
2003-01-09 12:34             ` C++ , ADA and the Joint Strike Fighter ( was Re: Anybody in USusing ADA ?) Marin David Condic
2002-12-31 22:38 ` Anybody in US using ADA ? Britt Snodgrass
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