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From: "Marin David Condic" <mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org>
Subject: Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:34:47 -0500
Date: 2002-12-12T13:35:21+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ata3ap$m2k$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3DF7901C.3000006@acm.org

I understand. I've collected similar data. I've seen other studies
indicating the same thing. But all of these studies (of necessity) have the
built-in caveat "All Other Things Being Equal". Someone who comes in the
door with a truckload of libraries and development tools and natural
bindings to the OS and other people's libraries and all that other stuff,
simply isn't playing fair. :-) They've moved their ball a hundred yards
closer to the pin while Ada has to tee off from the usual line. So what if
Ada could develop all those libraries, tools, bindings, etc. and ultimately
do a better job? The problem is they aren't there now and the project starts
today. The guy who bought the cheesy, buggy, C++ compiler that came with the
GUI wizard and magical debugger and the half-million lines of class-library
code got his project out the door 6 months ahead of you because you're still
building the interface bindings to the OS.

I'm sympathetic to the notion that Ada actually is faster for development
and I believe it because I've measured the results myself. However, there
really is no getting around that "All Other Things Being Equal" caveat and
right now the other guys are cheating while the Ada community can't even
find a way to create a standard class library without a ten year language
revision cycle. Is it any wonder that developers choose C++ or Java?

MDC
--
======================================================================
Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jast.mil/

Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g

    "I'd trade it all for just a little more"
        --  Charles Montgomery Burns, [4F10]
======================================================================

Jeffrey Carter <jrcarter@acm.org> wrote in message
news:3DF7901C.3000006@acm.org...
>
> But where we have real data (Rational's metrics on Ada compiler
> development in C and Ada), Ada was faster to completion as well as
> having fewer errors which were easier to correct.
>






  reply	other threads:[~2002-12-12 13:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 182+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-07  2:47 IBM Acquires Rational Ada Richard Riehle
2002-12-07  8:24 ` achrist
2002-12-08  1:46   ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-08 14:45     ` Steven Deller
2002-12-08 20:20       ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-09 14:26       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 18:25       ` achrist
2002-12-11 19:29         ` Martin Dowie
2002-12-22  2:07           ` faust
2002-12-21 18:08       ` faust
2002-12-08 17:18     ` steve_H
2002-12-08 20:11       ` Steven Deller
2002-12-09 14:24         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-09 15:23           ` John McCabe
2002-12-09 16:55             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-08 23:31       ` Christopher Browne
2002-12-09 10:30       ` John McCabe
2002-12-09 14:11         ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-12-09 14:32           ` Pat Rogers
2002-12-09 15:42         ` Simon Wright
2002-12-12 14:41           ` Alvery Grazebrook
2002-12-12 21:13             ` Martin Dowie
2002-12-16 13:24               ` UML to Ada Mapping Alvery Grazebrook
2002-12-17  8:27             ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Simon Wright
2002-12-10 22:43       ` Andreas Almroth
2002-12-09 13:09     ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-09 22:45       ` steve_H
2002-12-10 13:50         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-10 17:47           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-10 20:21             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-10 22:05               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-11  2:50                 ` steve_H
2002-12-11  8:51                   ` OT: Word processing (was: Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada) Anders Wirzenius
2002-12-11 13:45                   ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Marin David Condic
2002-12-11 14:46                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-12 13:07                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-12 18:19                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-12 19:12                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 12:25                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 17:41                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-13 18:20                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:49                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
     [not found]                                   ` <KIkL9.2260$c6.2599@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>
2002-12-16 18:12                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-17 21:25                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-16 18:54                                     ` John R. Strohm
2002-12-16 22:23                             ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-17 14:47                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 20:17                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-16 10:11                           ` calenday (was " Peter Hermann
2002-12-16 18:38                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-16 19:04                               ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 20:25                                 ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-16 20:37                                   ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 21:41                                     ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-16 22:11                                       ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-17 15:47                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-17 16:26                                           ` Peter Hermann
2002-12-17 16:37                                             ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 22:32                                   ` tmoran
2002-12-16 22:21                               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-17  8:07                               ` Simon Wright
2002-12-19 12:23                             ` Frank Piron
2002-12-19 12:33                               ` Karel Miklav
2002-12-19 13:24                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 14:46                           ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-17 19:08                             ` tmoran
2002-12-17 19:15                               ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-17 20:00                               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-17 19:48                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-17 20:08                               ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-17 20:52                               ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-17 21:43                               ` Steven Murdoch
2002-12-17 16:39                           ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                           ` <atk8s0$7dm$1@news.uni <wccn0n4oazy.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-18 13:20                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-18 15:17                               ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-18 17:58                                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19  8:48                                   ` tmoran
2002-12-19 13:18                                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19 20:46                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-20 12:23                                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-20 21:35                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-20 13:15                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-20 12:19                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-21 15:48                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-21 14:54                                               ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-20 18:49                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-20 19:48                                             ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-12-20 21:29                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-23  2:05                                                 ` AG
2002-12-27 20:43                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-21 15:59                                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-20 21:49                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 18:57                           ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                           ` <atk8s0$7dm$1@news.uni <wcc4r9b40ka.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-18 19:16                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-18 22:03                               ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 22:00                             ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 22:39                               ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-19  2:41                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19 11:47                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-13 14:18                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-13 17:07                       ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                       ` <ata1n7$g5g$1@slb4.atlOrganization: LJK Software <uaDr7xp1zlGD@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-12-13 21:52                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-14 14:01                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-14 20:01                           ` tmoran
2002-12-16 18:48                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-16 23:01                             ` Ed Cogburn
2002-12-11 14:59                     ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-11 18:33                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 20:51                       ` steve_H
2002-12-11 21:40                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 18:24                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-24  4:16                           ` David Thompson
2002-12-11 21:54                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-11 23:22                       ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-12 16:44                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 17:14                           ` Fraser Wilson
2002-12-12 18:33                             ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 19:16                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:26                                 ` Programmer Dude
2002-12-16 19:27                               ` John R. Strohm
2002-12-16 20:08                                 ` Hyman Rosen
     [not found]                       ` <8db3d6c8.0212111251.1ecca62e@po <wccel8of8dv.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-12 10:07                         ` John English
2002-12-13  0:53                           ` Zaphod
2002-12-12 13:20                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-11 19:04                     ` tmoran
2002-12-11 19:20                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-12 13:34                       ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2002-12-12 17:04                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 18:17                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13  9:17                             ` Peter Amey
2002-12-13 12:43                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 15:46                                 ` Robert Spooner
2002-12-14 14:15                                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-15 10:30                                     ` Ingo Marks
2002-12-15 13:54                                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-15 19:20                                         ` tmoran
2002-12-16 13:20                                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 15:41                                             ` steve_H
2002-12-18 13:11                                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-16 13:43                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 13:33             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-12 18:43               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-12 19:53                 ` tmoran
2002-12-13  6:06                 ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-13 10:22                   ` Ed Cogburn
2002-12-13 13:07                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 14:16                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:27                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-13 21:27                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-14 14:25                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-16 13:56                         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-17 15:04                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 21:29                             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-18 13:31                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-22  2:41                       ` faust
2002-12-13 14:13                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-22  2:47                     ` faust
2002-12-13 17:55                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-13 21:55                     ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-16 13:58                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-14  0:14                     ` steve_H
2002-12-16 19:00                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-14 12:58                     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2002-12-19  9:53                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-12-19 16:17                       ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2002-12-19 17:27                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-19 22:51                       ` Michael Bode
2002-12-13 12:51                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-14 19:51               ` GianLuigi Piacentini
2002-12-14 20:35                 ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-21 17:41     ` faust
2002-12-21 17:40 ` IBM , the kiss of death ( Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada) faust
2003-01-06 22:24 ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Don Westermeyer
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-12-12 12:56 Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2002-12-13  6:43 Grein, Christoph
2002-12-16  5:15 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-16  7:19   ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-17 22:51     ` Kevin Cline
2002-12-18 18:28       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-18 18:48         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-20  5:11           ` Kevin Cline
2002-12-22  2:39             ` faust
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