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From: "Marin David Condic" <mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org>
Subject: Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:20:19 -0500
Date: 2002-12-12T13:20:53+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ata2fl$r25$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1039618741.173427@master.nyc.kbcfp.com

The metrics I've collected in the past didn't have anything to do with how
fast someone could code-up some routine. In that respect, Ada probably
wouldn't have any advantage over C or C++ - possibly even a disadvantage.
What my metrics demonstrated was that when the whole development cycle was
complete (requirements through formal testing) using Ada meant a reduction
in man-hours spent (by about 50%) and a reduction in bugs found (by a factor
of 4). My study was not alone. There was also the famous Ada/Model-Railroad
study that demonstrated an impressive improvement in productivity and
reduction in errors in a similar environment. (realtime controls)

I wouldn't claim that you couldn't code just as fast - or even faster than I
can code, given our favorite languages. I'll even go so far as to say that
you'd be in that "Any Competent C Programmer" category who never makes
stupid mistakes in coding that cost untold hours down the line in debugging.
But given a random selection of developers with varying levels of skills and
the need to work together on a large development project, you've got a
different animal on your hands. In that situation, there is data to indicate
that when other factors are equal, (id est, nobody gets huge libraries of
utilities or other leverage) Ada is more productive and results in fewer
errors over the development cycle.

MDC
--
======================================================================
Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jast.mil/

Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g

    "I'd trade it all for just a little more"
        --  Charles Montgomery Burns, [4F10]
======================================================================

Hyman Rosen <hyrosen@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1039618741.173427@master.nyc.kbcfp.com...
> Marin David Condic wrote:
>  > I think that this "Ada Mentality" is in some way blinding
>
> You know, no one loves C and C++ more than I do, but I
> don't think I would be any slower coding in Ada than in
> either of the above languages (once I got a good working
> knowledge of the language, of course). I think it's a
> fallacy cherished by Ada programmers that C or C++ will
> just accept any garbage, and therefore code can just be
> churned out in those languages.
>





  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-12-12 13:20 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 182+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-07  2:47 IBM Acquires Rational Ada Richard Riehle
2002-12-07  8:24 ` achrist
2002-12-08  1:46   ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-08 14:45     ` Steven Deller
2002-12-08 20:20       ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-09 14:26       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 18:25       ` achrist
2002-12-11 19:29         ` Martin Dowie
2002-12-22  2:07           ` faust
2002-12-21 18:08       ` faust
2002-12-08 17:18     ` steve_H
2002-12-08 20:11       ` Steven Deller
2002-12-09 14:24         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-09 15:23           ` John McCabe
2002-12-09 16:55             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-08 23:31       ` Christopher Browne
2002-12-09 10:30       ` John McCabe
2002-12-09 14:11         ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-12-09 14:32           ` Pat Rogers
2002-12-09 15:42         ` Simon Wright
2002-12-12 14:41           ` Alvery Grazebrook
2002-12-12 21:13             ` Martin Dowie
2002-12-16 13:24               ` UML to Ada Mapping Alvery Grazebrook
2002-12-17  8:27             ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Simon Wright
2002-12-10 22:43       ` Andreas Almroth
2002-12-09 13:09     ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-09 22:45       ` steve_H
2002-12-10 13:50         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-10 17:47           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-10 20:21             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-10 22:05               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-11  2:50                 ` steve_H
2002-12-11  8:51                   ` OT: Word processing (was: Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada) Anders Wirzenius
2002-12-11 13:45                   ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Marin David Condic
2002-12-11 14:46                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-12 13:07                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-12 18:19                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-12 19:12                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 12:25                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 17:41                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-13 18:20                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:49                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
     [not found]                                   ` <KIkL9.2260$c6.2599@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>
2002-12-16 18:12                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-17 21:25                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-16 18:54                                     ` John R. Strohm
2002-12-16 22:23                             ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-17 14:47                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 20:17                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-16 10:11                           ` calenday (was " Peter Hermann
2002-12-16 18:38                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-16 19:04                               ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 20:25                                 ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-16 20:37                                   ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 21:41                                     ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-16 22:11                                       ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-17 15:47                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-17 16:26                                           ` Peter Hermann
2002-12-17 16:37                                             ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-16 22:32                                   ` tmoran
2002-12-16 22:21                               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-17  8:07                               ` Simon Wright
2002-12-19 12:23                             ` Frank Piron
2002-12-19 12:33                               ` Karel Miklav
2002-12-19 13:24                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 14:46                           ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-17 19:08                             ` tmoran
2002-12-17 19:15                               ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-17 20:00                               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-17 19:48                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-17 20:08                               ` David C. Hoos
2002-12-17 20:52                               ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-17 21:43                               ` Steven Murdoch
2002-12-17 16:39                           ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                           ` <atk8s0$7dm$1@news.uni <wccn0n4oazy.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-18 13:20                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-18 15:17                               ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-18 17:58                                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19  8:48                                   ` tmoran
2002-12-19 13:18                                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19 20:46                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-20 12:23                                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-20 21:35                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-20 13:15                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-20 12:19                                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-21 15:48                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-21 14:54                                               ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-20 18:49                                           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-20 19:48                                             ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-12-20 21:29                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-23  2:05                                                 ` AG
2002-12-27 20:43                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-21 15:59                                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-20 21:49                                           ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 18:57                           ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                           ` <atk8s0$7dm$1@news.uni <wcc4r9b40ka.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-18 19:16                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-18 22:03                               ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 22:00                             ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-18 22:39                               ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-19  2:41                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-19 11:47                           ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-13 14:18                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-13 17:07                       ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                       ` <ata1n7$g5g$1@slb4.atlOrganization: LJK Software <uaDr7xp1zlGD@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-12-13 21:52                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-14 14:01                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-14 20:01                           ` tmoran
2002-12-16 18:48                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-16 23:01                             ` Ed Cogburn
2002-12-11 14:59                     ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-11 18:33                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 20:51                       ` steve_H
2002-12-11 21:40                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 18:24                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-24  4:16                           ` David Thompson
2002-12-11 21:54                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-11 23:22                       ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-12 16:44                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 17:14                           ` Fraser Wilson
2002-12-12 18:33                             ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 19:16                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:26                                 ` Programmer Dude
2002-12-16 19:27                               ` John R. Strohm
2002-12-16 20:08                                 ` Hyman Rosen
     [not found]                       ` <8db3d6c8.0212111251.1ecca62e@po <wccel8of8dv.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-12-12 10:07                         ` John English
2002-12-13  0:53                           ` Zaphod
2002-12-12 13:20                       ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2002-12-11 19:04                     ` tmoran
2002-12-11 19:20                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-12 13:34                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-12 17:04                         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-12 18:17                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13  9:17                             ` Peter Amey
2002-12-13 12:43                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 15:46                                 ` Robert Spooner
2002-12-14 14:15                                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-15 10:30                                     ` Ingo Marks
2002-12-15 13:54                                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-15 19:20                                         ` tmoran
2002-12-16 13:20                                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 15:41                                             ` steve_H
2002-12-18 13:11                                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-16 13:43                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-11 13:33             ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-12 18:43               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-12 19:53                 ` tmoran
2002-12-13  6:06                 ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-13 10:22                   ` Ed Cogburn
2002-12-13 13:07                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-13 14:16                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-13 21:27                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-13 21:27                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-12-14 14:25                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-16 13:56                         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-17 15:04                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-17 21:29                             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-18 13:31                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-22  2:41                       ` faust
2002-12-13 14:13                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-22  2:47                     ` faust
2002-12-13 17:55                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-13 21:55                     ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-16 13:58                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-14  0:14                     ` steve_H
2002-12-16 19:00                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-14 12:58                     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2002-12-19  9:53                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-12-19 16:17                       ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2002-12-19 17:27                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-19 22:51                       ` Michael Bode
2002-12-13 12:51                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-12-14 19:51               ` GianLuigi Piacentini
2002-12-14 20:35                 ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2002-12-21 17:41     ` faust
2002-12-21 17:40 ` IBM , the kiss of death ( Re: IBM Acquires Rational Ada) faust
2003-01-06 22:24 ` IBM Acquires Rational Ada Don Westermeyer
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-12-12 12:56 Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2002-12-13  6:43 Grein, Christoph
2002-12-16  5:15 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-16  7:19   ` Richard Riehle
2002-12-17 22:51     ` Kevin Cline
2002-12-18 18:28       ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-18 18:48         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-12-20  5:11           ` Kevin Cline
2002-12-22  2:39             ` faust
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