Re: OT Hatred (was Re: New Ada compiler for .NET)

["Chad R. Meiners" <crmeiners@hotmail.com>]

"Smooth Sailor" <smsail@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1039145222.21352.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
>
> > "Why do so many people hate America."
> >
> > Ignorance.  Honestly, hatred of people of whom you do not
> > know can only be the result of ignorance.  It is irrational
> > to hate a country. It may be rational to oppose a
> > government's policies or an individual actions, but to hate a
> > group of people is simply irrational and the first step
> > towards handing out blanket judgements.
>
> I don't understand your claim that is irrational to hate a country.
> Many (including me) *love* America, so why can't it be hated by others.

It is irrational to hate such a large group of people just as it is
irrational to love such a large group of people.  Do you honestly love every
single American?  If so, does every American deserve your love?  Treating
someone with love who does not deserve love is less of a problem than
treating some with hate that does not deserve hate.

> I believe we (America) have done many things to engender hatred from
> people in other countries.  We have gone in places that were not our
> country and coerced, forced, and killed to get our way.  I'm not talking
> about "wars", and not even the "war" on terrorism.  I'm talking
> Nicaragua, Somalia, and various middle east countries.

No, we (as in all Americans) have not!  Only a small number of people can be
held directly responsible for mistakes and wrongs.  Is it correct to hold
children in a country responsible for their government's actions?  No, it is
not since they cannot prevent the government's actions.  If someone has a
grievance with the American government, let them bring the grievance, but do
not excuse their hatred of innocent people.  Such hatred is misdirected and
the cause of many problems.

> Yes we have also done a lot to love.  But I don't consider it irrational
> for someone to hate a country or a government that has killed their
> family or taken their land and made them refugees or propped up a puppet
> government their country that did those things.  It actually seems
> rather rational.

If someone has a grievance, they should raise it and seek just
reconciliation.  There is no excuse for misdirected hatred.

> I believe as part of my love of America I need to ask "Why do so many
> people hate America." and even more, try to *hear* what the response is.
> It doesn't weaken me or America to listen.  We need to mend our ways
> when we do hateful things, and the first step is understanding those
> things.

You are implying that I am dismissing the issue; I was not dismissing the
issue.  I stated that most people hate due to ignorance.  I stand by this
statement.

> Sweeping such questions away with the claim of "ignorance" or
> "irrationality" begs the question.

It does no such thing!  Do you know what begging the question is?  I'll give
you an example, Preben's original question,
"Why do so many people hate America?"  This is begging the question because
it implies that "so many people hate America" as if it were a fact.  It
maybe be a fact or it may not be a fact since the statement is ambiguous.
Another example of begging the question would be "Have you stopped beating
your dog?" which implies the fact that 'you' owns a dog and 'you' beats that
dog.  The point of begging the question is to defame the subject of the
question without directly accusing them.  It is mainly a trick to exploit
those ignorance of logical reasoning.

> There are legitimate reasons for dislike and even hatred of America.  If
> you truly love America (as I do), then you will want to take steps to
> eliminate any unnecessary actions that engender hatred of this great
> country.

Wow, that is a loaded statement.  I never said anything about not listening
to people or dismissing them.  You are putting words into my mouth.  You
have already chosen to judge me without knowing anything about me other than
I stated that most hatred is caused by ignorance.  You have provided
yourself as the perfect example of the irrational conclusions one can come
to when in a state of ignorance about a subject.

> > >    "What have America done to the world."
> >
> > Furthermore, what has the world done to itself?
>
> This is too defensive for my blood.

It is not defensive.  I was merely indicating that all who judge should also
submit themselves for judgment.  All grievances are complex issues.  You
cannot simply just judge one country alone because you will lose the context
which is necessary to understand the truth (if the truth can even be
obtained).

> We are arguably the strongest
> nation in the world.  I believe that makes it incumbent on ourselves to
> lead the way by doing the right thing, not blaming others, nor trying to
> justify past errors that are unjustifiable.  Personally, I like to take
> responsibility for my actions and, when necessary, make it right.  I'd
> like America to do so as well.

Likewise, I, as a person, try to act in a just manner.  It is important to
note that America is a government that does take responsibility for its
actions.  You can peacefully bring grievous to its elected representatives
and courts.

> > The American governments have made mistakes, but they have
> > also benefited the world significantly.
>
> We seem to be making more mistakes lately.  Our focus on eliminating the
> negative (as we perceive it), rather than emphasizing the positive, has
> actually created more negatives, not less.

You are stating an opinion not a fact.

> Some day this great nation will grow up and become a responsible world
> citizen rather than just the strongest nation that can push others to
> our will.  I intend to work towards that goal because I think America is
> worth it.  Time will tell.

Perhaps you should instead take up the fight against ignorance.  Logic is to
reasoning as Ada is to programming ;-)