Re: status of Ada STL?

["Marin David Condic" <mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org>]

Pat Rogers <progers@classwide.com> wrote in message
news:Mmjl9.38563$jw6.533609596@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Just so, as we've discussed before, because supplying it means they
> have to support it.
>
I understand that aspect - they don't want to increase the level of effort
to maintain something unless there is some demand out there. It seems though
that perhaps instead of waiting for a groundswell of demand it might be
wiser to actually try to drive it from in front. Get a preliminary agreement
between the interested parties that some specific thing *might* be the right
answer, then go out and try to sell it. "We vendors kind of agree that a
library sort of like this might be a good idea. Is that worth something to
you if we made it a priority? What would you give up in exchange for making
it a priority?"

Given the traffic on this subject here in the past, I don't find it
difficult to believe that there is a significant demand for *some* library
to exist - the problem seems to be one of who is going to say what that
library is.


> > (Hint: If you are a paying customer, send an e-mail to your sales or
> > customer support weenies indicating what you would prefer.)
>
> Good idea.  I think it is the only way it will happen.
>
If demand is perceived, they'll make something happen. So for those with
contracts and an interest in libraries, start creating the demand.


> > Otherwise, we can wait for Ada0x since I'm sure something will be in
> it by
> > then.
>
> Is there reason to think so? :-(
>
I think there is a good likelihood that Ada0x will have some kind of library
in it. I don't know that waiting for something to get in the standard is a
good thing. First off, whatever eventually *does* end up in the standard, it
will most likely be very limited in scope. Its just too darned hard to get
any truly extensive thing into the standard given the need for validation,
etc. So maybe you'll see some limited containers in there and maybe some
support for OS interfacing. But consider that most of the folks driving the
standard really want stability and lack of new required effort on their
part, so they've got an incentive to exclude as much as they can from
getting in there. That's why it would be better to have some mechanism to
get a reference implementation built & give it to the vendors. A reference
implementation of something can get as big and glorious as it wants and it
requires much less from the vendors than sticking something into the
standard. They can provide it with all sorts of disclaimers "Use at your own
risk." "No vendor serviceable parts inside." "If you want to complain - send
a note to SIGAda-Library-Working-Group or someone who might actually care."
If all the vendors have the same reference implementation, it doesn't change
competitiveness much, but it dramatically increases the value of Ada to
those not using it as of yet.

Its quite all right if the Ada community wants to wait until Ada0x to
include some libraries for containers and whatnot. After all, the Ada
community waited until Ada95 to provide sqrt and log functions and the folks
who had to do numeric programming between 83 and 95 had a workaround - use
Fortran, C or C++. (Oh, but you can always bind to those libraries! :-) If
the Ada community doesn't want to create libraries to help developers
leverage their effort, I'm sure the folks starting new developments can just
as easily get those started in Java or C++ where they *do* already have
extensive libraries. Ada can continue to provide too little, too late and
the computing world can continue to adopt technologies that give them more
leverage. Darwin won't shed any tears. :-)

MDC
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Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jast.mil/

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    "I'd trade it all for just a little more"
        --  Charles Montgomery Burns, [4F10]
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