Re: Ada is getting more popular!

[Colin Paul Gloster <Colin_Paul_Gloster@ACM.org>]

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Warning: still very much unrelated to Ada...


Dmitry A. Kazakov <mailbox@Dmitry-Kazakov.De> sent on October 27th, 2010:

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|"On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:59:29 +0000, Colin Paul Gloster wrote:                |
|                                                                              |
|> Dmitry A. Kazakov <mailbox@Dmitry-Kazakov.De> sent on October 26th, 2010:   |
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|>|"2. Considering the parameters you mention, excessively high cost of living||
|>|presumes that someone else pays for Europeans."                            ||
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|>                                                                             |
|> No, it is a high cost of living. If it is a proxy for someone else          |
|> paying for Europeans, then I am not aware of it but then neither am I       |
|> an economist.                                                               |
|                                                                              |
|But if Europeans pay for themselves where is an excess? I consider it         |
|normal to spend the earned."                                                  |
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Software produced in Europe would cost more than software produced in
New Zealand, in order to subsidize the higher cost of living of
someone in Europe without making any extra profit for the rival in
Europe. As such, the high cost of living in Europe is excessive and
does impact other costs and the European economy.

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|"> Shall the Federal so-called Republic of Germany stop subsidizing the       |
|> so-called Republic of Ireland during this century?                          |
|                                                                              |
|Do you mean EU's subsidizing programs? [..]                                   |
|[..]"                                                                         |
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Probably. I was referring to how Éire was being paid with taxes from
the European Union worth 4.06 times what Éire was paying to the
European Union in taxes at the same time, in the 1990's. Sometime, I
suspect more recently but I am not wasting time to check, there was a
justified complaint by a politican employed by Germany complaining
about much the same thing (claiming something like it was time for
Éire to stop being greedy and to allow others to benefit), but the
ratio of money coming in to money going out may have been different.

(By the way, not all subsequent refusals by the European Union to
Ireland were justified. Just because the rich in Ireland get richer
does not mean that the poor in Ireland do not get poorer.)

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|">|---------------------------------------------------------------------------||
|>|"Laziness presumes in this context that the average productivity of an     | |
|>|European worker "                                                          | |
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|>                                                                              |
|> I do not know whether or not an average European worker is lazy. I do        |
|> not deem laziness to be anti-correlated with productivity.                   |
|                                                                               |
|That depends on the measure. In working hours per week? Wouldn't you prefer    |
|a lazy Ada programmer, who completes the project before the schedule and       |
|spends the rest of the time on the beach, to a C programmer enjoying           |
|16-hours-per-day marathons of patching bug-ridden mess he wrote?"              |
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I would prefer a dedicated Ada programmer who is so interested in the
topic that he or she gets much more done than the lazy Ada programmer,
whose interest instead seems to be going to the beach.

As the dedicated Ada programmer would be so good, I can accept the
dedicated Ada programmer taking a few hours or days off to rest better
or to take care of chores or to work on a better hobby than
contracting cancer.


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|">|---------------------------------------------------------------------------||
|>|"is lower than one of a Chinese worker. This is also wrong,                | |
|>|very wrong."                                                               | |
|>|---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |
|>                                                                              |
|> I do not know much about Chinese workers. I imagine that average             |
|> Chinese workers are forced to work for much longer than average              |
|> European workers, whether or not they are lazy.                              |
|                                                                               |
|They are working much harder, but also much less productive. But who is        |
|lazy here?"                                                                    |
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Okay.

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|"Another point. Lazy is someone who deliberately decides not to work. [..]    |
|[..]                                                                          |
|[..] Where do you know if they wanted                                         |
|to work more than Europeans under same conditions?"                           |
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Fair enough. Let me phrase it differently. In Europe, there seems to
be more significant legal protection to protect the option of enacting
one's laziness than in China.

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|" Now,                                                                        |
|people in China are *forced* to work, otherwise they hunger."                 |
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This is true everywhere.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|" [ In USSR                                                                   |
|there was a legal punishment for those who refused to take a job. Maybe       |
|something like this exists in China too. ]"                                   |
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Apparently in Denmark the dole could be withheld if someone refused to
take a job suggested by people who work for the dole.

|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"> However, in Europe one has legal protection to enforce laziness if a     |
|> lazy person in Europe opts to.                                            |
|                                                                            |
|I disagree. The legal protection of workers is here in order compensate the |
|power an employer has over the employees. This in the end makes workers     |
|more productive, from which employers benefit even more than the employees."|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

In Europe it is illegal to force someone to work without a break. In
the Republic of Ireland, it is unconstitutional to force a mother to
work under conditions which interfere with her duties at home. I once
offered to work in France for gratis, but the would-have-been employer
could not legally hire someone without paying wages. Basically the
same thing also happened to me in Ireland.

Regards,
Colin Paul Gloster