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From: "Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org>
Subject: Re: Is strong typing worth the cost?
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:42:22 -0400
Date: 2002-04-30T20:42:24+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <aamvjg$i5t$1@nh.pace.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: aamu42$bc8$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu

I can imagine requirements that state things like "Thou Shalt Range Check
All Values Before Assignment..." and then any weak typed language loses.
That's not really a functional requirement, but I could imagine something
like that being necessary to insure that you're comparing apples to apples
in your experiment.

Things like that *can* become functional requirements as in "The system
shall detect all input that is out of range..." or "The system shall never
generate an output for this device that exceeds its safe operating
range...." All that requires some kind of constraint checks at points
throughout the code where a weak typed language is going to be at a
disadvantage because you'll have to manufacture your own checks. (Or drive
fast and take chances! :-) (Hey! Maybe that's my new analogy: "Any
*Competent* Driver can get all tanked up at a bar and drive home really fast
and not get in an accident or get busted by the cops..." :-)

So maybe the question starts coming down to "How correct do you want the
software to be?" If its a quick and dirty, one shot program, Ada is likely
to lose. If it Absolutely, Positively Has To Be There Overnight, then weakly
typed languages will lose. Somewhere in the middle, there is an arguable
point where it crosses over.

Which all gets us back to the issue of how hard it is to conduct true
science with software engineering because its like trying to nail Jello to a
tree. Its really hard to reduce an experiment to one (or even a few)
variable(s).

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"Chad R. Meiners" <crmeiners@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aamu42$bc8$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
>
> Invalid! (well mostly ;) How do we know the costs are related to strong or
> weak typing?  It could be that program A satisfies an unrequested
> requirement that doubles the cost of development.  I realize that your
> realistic requirements MIGHT TRY to address this issue, but the better the
> requirements the closer your programs get to being the same which is the
> only way you can do a truly valid comparison.  This is why it is hard to
> acquire valid experimental data in computer science.
>






  reply	other threads:[~2002-04-30 20:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 166+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-04-28 17:07 Is strong typing worth the cost? dmjones
2002-04-29 15:22 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-29 15:53   ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-29 18:37   ` dmjones
2002-04-29 18:50     ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-29 19:00     ` Darren New
2002-04-30 11:50     ` Marc A. Criley
2002-04-30 13:24       ` dmjones
2002-04-30 15:03         ` Jim Rogers
2002-04-30 16:48           ` dmjones
2002-04-30 17:45             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 21:36               ` Brian Gaffney
2002-04-30 18:20             ` tmoran
2002-04-30 19:00               ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 15:20                 ` dmjones
2002-05-01 16:07                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02  5:00                     ` Simon Wright
2002-05-02  7:55                   ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-01 16:51                 ` Darren New
2002-05-01 17:25                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 16:09                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03 13:46                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 22:54                         ` Darren New
2002-05-01 18:22                 ` tmoran
2002-05-01 18:50                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 20:30                   ` Dan Andreatta
2002-05-01 21:47                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 15:43                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-04-30 19:01             ` Preben Randhol
2002-04-30 19:28               ` Preben Randhol
2002-04-30 20:20                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01  8:36                   ` Pascal Obry
2002-05-01 11:50                     ` Gary Scott
2002-05-01 13:39                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02  2:24                         ` Darren New
2002-05-02 15:47                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 16:37                             ` Darren New
2002-05-02 19:59                               ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-02 21:48                                 ` Darren New
2002-05-02 22:16                                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 23:52                                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03  0:17                                       ` Aidan Skinner
2002-05-03  0:31                                         ` Aidan Skinner
2002-05-03 15:10                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:06                                         ` Darren New
2002-05-06 16:37                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-06 17:40                                             ` Darren New
2002-05-07  2:06                                               ` tmoran
2002-05-07 15:21                                                 ` Darren New
2002-05-07 19:11                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 15:31                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:21                                         ` Darren New
2002-05-06 15:33                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-06 16:30                                             ` Darren New
2002-05-03 15:38                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:07                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 19:51                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2002-05-03 20:55                                         ` Ed Falis
2002-05-04 16:34                                           ` Brian Rogoff
2002-05-03  0:22                                   ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03  0:48                                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03 12:11                                       ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03 14:27                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-04  0:23                                           ` Darren New
2002-05-06 17:54                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-07 15:28                                               ` Darren New
2002-05-07 17:54                                                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03 14:01                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 23:41                             ` Gary Scott
2002-05-06 18:05                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:19                       ` Pascal Obry
2002-05-01 13:27                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:28                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 15:25                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 15:51                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 16:47                         ` Gary Scott
2002-05-02 18:24                           ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 18:48                             ` Dan Nagle
2002-05-03  8:44                               ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 10:17                                 ` Gary Scott
2002-05-03 10:48                                   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 13:13                                     ` Gary Scott
2002-05-03 14:40                                       ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 14:32                                 ` Dan Nagle
2002-05-02 17:26                         ` Larry Hazel
2002-05-02 18:12                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:40                             ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 21:54                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:54                           ` Gary Scott
2002-05-02 21:56                             ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-26 17:56                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-26 22:04                             ` Brian Rogoff
2002-05-27 23:26                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-28 15:26                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 11:30                     ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                     ` <3CCFD76A.A60BB9Organization: LJK Software <Sb8D81Zz$HcE@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-05-02 16:12                       ` Darren New
2002-04-30 21:17             ` Jim Rogers
2002-04-30 21:30               ` Darren New
2002-05-07 12:17           ` Colin Paul Gloster
2002-05-07 22:11             ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-30 15:39         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:39           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 15:42             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 20:17               ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-03 14:40                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-26 16:51               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-28 15:16                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 17:02         ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-30 17:27           ` Darren New
2002-04-30 20:15             ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-30 20:42               ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2002-05-02 12:00                 ` Marc A. Criley
2002-05-02 15:20                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 16:19                   ` Darren New
2002-05-03 14:44                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 21:40               ` Darren New
2002-04-30 21:43             ` tmoran
2002-04-30 22:38               ` Darren New
2002-04-30 18:04           ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 17:27         ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-30 17:35         ` Marc A. Criley
2002-05-01  4:01         ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-29 16:02 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01  0:31 ` dmjones
2002-05-01  8:05   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-01  8:07   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-01 14:32   ` Mike Silva
2002-05-01 15:52     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 16:17     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:53       ` tmoran
2002-05-02 18:58         ` Pat Rogers
2002-05-01 15:35   ` Jim Rogers
2002-05-01 16:17     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 18:42     ` dmjones
2002-05-01 20:12       ` Dan Andreatta
2002-05-01 20:19       ` Darren New
2002-05-01 22:17         ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-02 16:18           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 21:46       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-01 22:21       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-02 11:28         ` John English
2002-05-02 16:18           ` Darren New
2002-05-02 16:41             ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 18:28               ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 19:53                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-03 12:12                 ` Andrzej Filip
2002-05-03 10:14             ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-05-26 22:46               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-27  8:10           ` Florian Weimer
2002-05-01 22:47       ` Jim Rogers
2002-05-01 16:32   ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-01 17:59     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 19:08     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 21:10   ` Brian Gaffney
2002-05-03  2:45 ` dmjones
2002-05-03  7:59   ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-03  8:43     ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03  8:55       ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-03  8:51   ` Preben Randhol
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-04-29 19:21 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-29 20:15 ` dmjones
2002-04-29 23:26 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-30 18:08 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-05-01 11:07 ` David Gillon
2002-04-30 20:32 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-30 21:34 Gralia, Mars  J.
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