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From: "Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org>
Subject: Re: Is strong typing worth the cost?
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:04:45 -0400
Date: 2002-04-30T18:04:47+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <aammbv$evh$1@nh.pace.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: aamiqj$30ce$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu

Interesting questions. If I write an Ada program using just the types
defined in Standard, I've still got stronger typing than writing a C program
with the types int and char and double, etc... It doesn't cost any more to
use Integer and Character and Long_Float, etc... in terms of any relavent
development time, yet you automatically get *some* level of type safety. If
it causes a single error to be found at compile time that would have snuck
through an equivalent C program that needed to be found with a debugger, one
could argue that the fix is inherently less costly since it is found earlier
in the process. To argue that this *adds* any cost you'd have to convince
yourself that including appropriate conversions and fixing compiler error
messages takes some significant amount of time in comparison to having the
compiler let everything slide on through. That, while undemonstrated, seems
to be highly unlikely.

Its not an easy thing to demonstrate with experiments, in any case. There
are just too many variables. It might be easier to demonstrate something at
a more encompassing level, like "Language X is more productive than Language
Y" since there you can easily swap out the variable. But you're still stuck
with trying to make all other things be equal.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"Chad R. Meiners" <crmeiners@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aamiqj$30ce$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
>
> If you want to write the SAME programs (one with and one without strong
> typing), you will have to analyze the constraints that you wish to place
on
> variables in both programs.  The cost of using a strong type system is the
> creation of types that satisfy your constraints; the cost of not using a
> strong type system is writing the code so that it audits itself with
> constraint checks every time it modifies the variables.  Note that if you
do
> not wish to place constraints on any variables the strong typing system
does
> not cost more than the weak typing system since you do not have to create
> any types.  One can easily construct examples where the strong typing
> systems costs less.  Can you construct an example where it costs more?
>
> If you want to write DIFFERENT programs (one with strong typing the others
> without), how can you compare the costs of strong typing against the cost
of
> weak typing?
>
> -CRM
>
>





  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-04-30 18:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 166+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-04-28 17:07 Is strong typing worth the cost? dmjones
2002-04-29 15:22 ` Ted Dennison
2002-04-29 15:53   ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-29 18:37   ` dmjones
2002-04-29 18:50     ` Pat Rogers
2002-04-29 19:00     ` Darren New
2002-04-30 11:50     ` Marc A. Criley
2002-04-30 13:24       ` dmjones
2002-04-30 15:03         ` Jim Rogers
2002-04-30 16:48           ` dmjones
2002-04-30 17:45             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 21:36               ` Brian Gaffney
2002-04-30 18:20             ` tmoran
2002-04-30 19:00               ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 15:20                 ` dmjones
2002-05-01 16:07                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02  5:00                     ` Simon Wright
2002-05-02  7:55                   ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-01 16:51                 ` Darren New
2002-05-01 17:25                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 16:09                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03 13:46                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 22:54                         ` Darren New
2002-05-01 18:22                 ` tmoran
2002-05-01 18:50                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 20:30                   ` Dan Andreatta
2002-05-01 21:47                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 15:43                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-04-30 19:01             ` Preben Randhol
2002-04-30 19:28               ` Preben Randhol
2002-04-30 20:20                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01  8:36                   ` Pascal Obry
2002-05-01 11:50                     ` Gary Scott
2002-05-01 13:39                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02  2:24                         ` Darren New
2002-05-02 15:47                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 16:37                             ` Darren New
2002-05-02 19:59                               ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-02 21:48                                 ` Darren New
2002-05-02 22:16                                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 23:52                                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03  0:17                                       ` Aidan Skinner
2002-05-03  0:31                                         ` Aidan Skinner
2002-05-03 15:10                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:06                                         ` Darren New
2002-05-06 16:37                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-06 17:40                                             ` Darren New
2002-05-07  2:06                                               ` tmoran
2002-05-07 15:21                                                 ` Darren New
2002-05-07 19:11                                                   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 15:31                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:21                                         ` Darren New
2002-05-06 15:33                                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-06 16:30                                             ` Darren New
2002-05-03 15:38                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-03 16:07                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 19:51                                       ` Randy Brukardt
2002-05-03 20:55                                         ` Ed Falis
2002-05-04 16:34                                           ` Brian Rogoff
2002-05-03  0:22                                   ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03  0:48                                     ` Darren New
2002-05-03 12:11                                       ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03 14:27                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-04  0:23                                           ` Darren New
2002-05-06 17:54                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-07 15:28                                               ` Darren New
2002-05-07 17:54                                                 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-05-03 14:01                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-03 23:41                             ` Gary Scott
2002-05-06 18:05                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:19                       ` Pascal Obry
2002-05-01 13:27                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:28                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 15:25                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 15:51                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 16:47                         ` Gary Scott
2002-05-02 18:24                           ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 18:48                             ` Dan Nagle
2002-05-03  8:44                               ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 10:17                                 ` Gary Scott
2002-05-03 10:48                                   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 13:13                                     ` Gary Scott
2002-05-03 14:40                                       ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03 14:32                                 ` Dan Nagle
2002-05-02 17:26                         ` Larry Hazel
2002-05-02 18:12                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:40                             ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 21:54                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:54                           ` Gary Scott
2002-05-02 21:56                             ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-26 17:56                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-26 22:04                             ` Brian Rogoff
2002-05-27 23:26                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-28 15:26                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 11:30                     ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                     ` <3CCFD76A.A60BB9Organization: LJK Software <Sb8D81Zz$HcE@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-05-02 16:12                       ` Darren New
2002-04-30 21:17             ` Jim Rogers
2002-04-30 21:30               ` Darren New
2002-05-07 12:17           ` Colin Paul Gloster
2002-05-07 22:11             ` Hyman Rosen
2002-04-30 15:39         ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 14:39           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 15:42             ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 20:17               ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-03 14:40                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-26 16:51               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-28 15:16                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 17:02         ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-30 17:27           ` Darren New
2002-04-30 20:15             ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-04-30 20:42               ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 12:00                 ` Marc A. Criley
2002-05-02 15:20                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 16:19                   ` Darren New
2002-05-03 14:44                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-04-30 21:40               ` Darren New
2002-04-30 21:43             ` tmoran
2002-04-30 22:38               ` Darren New
2002-04-30 18:04           ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2002-04-30 17:27         ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-04-30 17:35         ` Marc A. Criley
2002-05-01  4:01         ` Richard Riehle
2002-04-29 16:02 ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01  0:31 ` dmjones
2002-05-01  8:05   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-01  8:07   ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-01 14:32   ` Mike Silva
2002-05-01 15:52     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-02 16:17     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-02 18:53       ` tmoran
2002-05-02 18:58         ` Pat Rogers
2002-05-01 15:35   ` Jim Rogers
2002-05-01 16:17     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 18:42     ` dmjones
2002-05-01 20:12       ` Dan Andreatta
2002-05-01 20:19       ` Darren New
2002-05-01 22:17         ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-02 16:18           ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 21:46       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-01 22:21       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-02 11:28         ` John English
2002-05-02 16:18           ` Darren New
2002-05-02 16:41             ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-02 18:28               ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-02 19:53                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-05-03 12:12                 ` Andrzej Filip
2002-05-03 10:14             ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-05-26 22:46               ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-05-27  8:10           ` Florian Weimer
2002-05-01 22:47       ` Jim Rogers
2002-05-01 16:32   ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-05-01 17:59     ` Marin David Condic
2002-05-01 19:08     ` Wes Groleau
2002-05-01 21:10   ` Brian Gaffney
2002-05-03  2:45 ` dmjones
2002-05-03  7:59   ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-03  8:43     ` Preben Randhol
2002-05-03  8:55       ` Martin Dowie
2002-05-03  8:51   ` Preben Randhol
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-04-29 19:21 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-29 20:15 ` dmjones
2002-04-29 23:26 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-30 18:08 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-05-01 11:07 ` David Gillon
2002-04-30 20:32 Beard, Frank [Contractor]
2002-04-30 21:34 Gralia, Mars  J.
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