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From: "Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org>
Subject: Re: Ada Operating System
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:24:29 -0500
Date: 2002-03-18T17:24:30+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a757se$od9$1@nh.pace.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3C961352.DE25ADF1@avercom.net

Oh sure. I'd agree - I just don't want to get caught making extraordinary
claims that start the whole "Any Competent C Programmer Would..." kinds of
debate. While Ada is busy checking mundane kinds of things, its likely to
surface higher level mistakes. If you're tripping over all sorts of type
conflicts, for example, it probably means you need to revisit your design as
possibly needing some additional thinking. Or it might make it clear that
someone is misusing a structure in some way that reflects incorrect logic.
People often say "If you get an Ada program past the compiler, chances are
it is correct..." - but I just don't want to claim that this is, of
necessity, so.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"Tucker Taft" <stt@avercom.net> wrote in message
news:3C961352.DE25ADF1@avercom.net...
>
> I would go a bit further than that.  It is true that Ada is very good at
> catching "stupid" errors like leaving out a semicolon, misspelling an
> identifier, swapping the order of parameters, indexing with the wrong
> variable, etc.  But the surprising thing, once you start using a language
> like Ada, is the number of "subtle" errors that it catches.  May favorite
> analogy is that of trying to ski down a ski slope.  If there are is just
> one (slalom) gate on the slope, pretty much anyone can make it through the
gate
> and down the slope.  However, once you get a few dozen gates, you have
> to have a "deeply correct" understanding of skiing to make it through
> the "gauntlet," even though each gate is checking something "trivial."
>
> In the same way, Ada throws up several "gates" on every line of the
> program, both picky compile-time checks, and run-time checks for things
> that can't be proved correct at compile-time.  The actual number of
> checks performed compared to languages with a weaker typing model
> is quite impressive when you start counting them.  All of these
> checks are of the "mundane" variety, but the combination of them
> all creates a gauntlet that, typically, only a "deeply consistent"
> program can satisfy.  The empirical evidence is that a program
> written in a language with as many consistency checks as Ada, once
> it makes it through the compile-time and run-time gauntlets, is much
> closer to being "correct" than a program with a weaker gauntlet
> to pass.  And the overall time required to bring a program to the
> desired level of quality is significantly less because of these
> gauntlets made up of "trivial" checks.
>






  reply	other threads:[~2002-03-18 17:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-02-19 19:39 Ada Operating System Dann Corbit
2002-02-19 21:23 ` Adrian Knoth
2002-02-19 21:58 ` chris.danx
2002-02-19 22:40   ` Hugues Jerome
2002-02-20  0:38     ` Dann Corbit
2002-02-20 14:47       ` Joel Sherrill
2002-02-20 19:09         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-02-21 15:33           ` tony gair
2002-02-21 17:46             ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-02-21 17:57             ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-02-22  0:34               ` tony gair
2002-02-22  2:23                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-02-21 22:05             ` David Starner
2002-02-22  9:08             ` Adrian Hoe
2002-02-22 20:37               ` David Starner
2002-02-23  4:44                 ` Adrian Hoe
2002-02-23  6:10                   ` Mark Biggar
2002-02-23 18:04                   ` Richard Riehle
2002-02-23 18:07                   ` David Starner
2002-02-23 20:30                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-02-24  2:42                       ` David Starner
2002-02-24  4:27                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-02-24 17:15                         ` David Starner
2002-02-23 19:01                   ` Darren New
2002-02-25 13:51                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-02-26  0:47                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-05 14:16                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-02-25 17:56                   ` Pascal Obry
2002-02-25 20:01                   ` Randy Brukardt
2002-02-25 22:08                     ` Ted Dennison
2002-02-23 13:32                 ` Wannabe h4x0r
2002-02-23 13:53                   ` Jeffrey Creem
2002-02-25 18:00                     ` Pascal Obry
2002-02-23 14:05                   ` Samuel Tardieu
2002-02-23 14:31                   ` Florian Weimer
2002-02-23 20:09                     ` Wannabe h4x0r
2002-02-25 22:06                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-02-25  0:54                   ` Adrian Hoe
2002-02-25 12:52                   ` Ian S. Nelson
2002-02-23 16:41               ` Nick Roberts
2002-02-23 17:57               ` Richard Riehle
2002-02-23  3:11             ` Robert Dewar
2002-02-23  3:36               ` Dann Corbit
2002-02-23  4:42                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-02-25 14:05                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-02-26  0:48                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-02-23 18:12                 ` David Starner
2002-02-23 16:41           ` Nick Roberts
2002-02-20 13:48     ` Stephen Leake
2002-02-20  1:06 ` eunux
2002-02-23 16:41 ` Nick Roberts
2002-02-25 14:28   ` Marin David Condic
2002-02-27  5:23     ` James Ross
2002-03-05 14:28       ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-07  6:05         ` James Ross
2002-03-07 15:48           ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-08 16:03             ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-08 16:31               ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-09  9:46                 ` David Starner
2002-03-09 14:43                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-11 14:19                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-11 15:24                       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-09 15:40                 ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-09 15:52                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-09 17:54                 ` tmoran
2002-03-09 18:20                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-08 20:31               ` Dann Corbit
2002-03-09 15:42                 ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-09 16:34               ` Ian S. Nelson
2002-03-09 18:15                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-10  6:44                   ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-10 14:37                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-11  5:03                       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-11 14:49                         ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-11 15:30                           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-11 17:30                             ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-11 17:45                               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-11 19:58                                 ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-12 17:42                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-03-12 20:39                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-10 15:03                     ` Matthew Woodcraft
2002-03-10 19:40                     ` David Starner
2002-03-11  5:06                       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-11 15:11                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-18 16:18                           ` Tucker Taft
2002-03-18 17:24                             ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2002-03-25 17:25                             ` Darren New
2002-03-25 19:36                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-26  6:34                               ` James Ross
2002-03-26 13:56                                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-26 17:55                                 ` Darren New
2002-03-11 14:47                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-11 15:16                       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-11 16:04                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-12 17:45                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-03-11 14:57                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-11 14:39                 ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-13  1:03               ` Pam Kelly
2002-03-13  1:45                 ` Gary Scott
2002-03-13  7:27                   ` David Starner
2002-03-13 14:02                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-13 22:42                     ` Pam Kelly
2002-03-13 23:28                       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-27  0:51                         ` Brian Catlin
2002-03-13 23:51                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-14 15:54                     ` Alfred Hilscher
2002-03-13 13:54                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-14 13:17                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-14 17:32                       ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-13 13:49                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-14  2:09                   ` Pam Kelly
2002-03-14 16:01                   ` Alfred Hilscher
2002-03-14 17:43                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-16  9:06                       ` DPH
2002-03-16  8:00                   ` James Ross
2002-03-16 16:52                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-17  3:40                       ` Rod Haper
2002-03-16 20:07                     ` Robert A Duff
2002-03-17 11:23                       ` Preben Randhol
2002-03-17 21:36                       ` James Ross
2002-03-17 22:12                         ` Darren New
2002-03-18  1:25                           ` James Ross
2002-03-18  3:26                             ` Darren New
2002-03-18  5:06                               ` James Ross
2002-03-18  5:12                                 ` Darren New
2002-03-18  7:14                                   ` James Ross
2002-03-20 10:03                               ` Mats Karlssohn
2002-03-19  6:20                             ` David Starner
2002-03-23  6:06                               ` James Ross
2002-03-23 12:34                                 ` Preben Randhol
2002-03-23 21:44                                   ` David Starner
2002-03-24  3:47                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-25 19:00                                   ` Preben Randhol
2002-03-25 19:27                                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-26 16:25                                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-26 18:01                                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-27 13:32                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-27 14:22                                         ` sk
2002-03-27 16:39                                           ` Darren New
2002-03-27 17:07                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-28  4:40                                               ` tmoran
2002-03-28 14:43                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-28  5:25                                               ` sk
2002-03-28  4:34                                       ` James Ross
2002-03-28 14:37                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-29 17:52                                           ` Darren New
2002-03-26 20:23                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-28 13:25                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                 ` <a7ntns$7hh$Organization: LJK Software <vEY3SfNlq6Uc@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-03-28 14:58                                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-29 11:29                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                                 ` <a7ntns$7hh$Organization: LJK Software <Aj0bpsr17AIQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2002-03-29 14:02                                   ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-27 20:22                               ` John R. Strohm
2002-03-19  6:22                       ` David Starner
2002-03-13 14:08                 ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-13 22:02                   ` Pam Kelly
2002-03-13 22:19                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-13 23:26                       ` Pam Kelly
2002-03-14  0:49                         ` Adrian Knoth
2002-03-14 13:14                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-14 17:49                           ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-15 16:41                             ` Aidan Skinner
2002-03-15 19:26                             ` Mark Biggar
2002-03-15 20:14                               ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-15  8:03                   ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2002-03-12  2:23             ` James Ross
2002-03-12 15:28               ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-13  5:52                 ` James Ross
2002-02-27 11:30 ` Jorge Real
2002-02-28  5:34   ` tmoran
2002-02-28  8:56     ` chris.danx
2002-02-28 14:23       ` Wes Groleau
2002-02-28 13:19     ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-02-28 14:19     ` Wes Groleau
2002-02-28 15:24       ` chris.danx
2002-02-28 15:34         ` Ian Wild
2002-02-28 16:23           ` chris.danx
2002-02-28 17:52             ` Dave Poirier
2002-02-28 17:57               ` Dave Poirier
2002-03-02  4:01               ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-02-28 18:32         ` Tom Moran
2002-02-28 17:47     ` Dave Poirier
2002-02-27 21:50 ` Ken Pinard
2002-02-28  2:38   ` Dave Poirier
2002-02-28 13:49   ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-11 11:56 ` Simon Wright
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