Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Pascal Obry]

You may be interested by those PDF:

http://pobry.blogspot.fr/2014/05/pre-ada-documents.html

-- 
  Pascal Obry /  Magny Les Hameaux (78)

  The best way to travel is by means of imagination

  http://v2p.fr.eu.org
  http://www.obry.net

  gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[AdaMagica]

Thanx for sharing :-)

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Dan'l Miller]

Thank you very much!

I would be interested in reading any Red (or Blue) Language documents that competed with Green Language during the latter 1970s.

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Shark8]

On 23-May-14 09:41, Pascal Obry wrote:
>
> You may be interested by those PDF:
>
> http://pobry.blogspot.fr/2014/05/pre-ada-documents.html
>

Thank you!
I'd be /very/ interested in Red and/or Blue if you happen to come across 
them.

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Randy Brukardt]

"Shark8" <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:kUOfv.434618$l83.312426@fx28.iad...
> On 23-May-14 09:41, Pascal Obry wrote:
>>
>> You may be interested by those PDF:
>>
>> http://pobry.blogspot.fr/2014/05/pre-ada-documents.html
>>
>
> Thank you!
> I'd be /very/ interested in Red and/or Blue if you happen to come across 
> them.

You have some aversion to Yellow? :-)

(There were four original proposals. And I think they all were published in 
some ACM publication (SIGPlan Notices??) - I remember reading them back when 
I was still a student. There's only a detailed proposal for Red and Green, 
of course, Yellow and Blue were chopped early.

                                    Randy.

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Dan'l Miller]

On Friday, May 23, 2014 4:52:16 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote:
> "Shark8" wrote in message 
> > Thank you!
> > I'd be /very/ interested in Red and/or Blue if you happen to come across 
> > them.
> 
> You have some aversion to Yellow? :-)

  Although I cannot speak for Shark8, I would love to see whatever was prepared for Yellow or for Blue.

> (There were four original proposals. And I think they all were published in 
> some ACM publication (SIGPlan Notices??) - I remember reading them back when 
> I was still a student. There's only a detailed proposal for Red and Green, 
> of course, Yellow and Blue were chopped early.

Even if they were ruled out early, it would still be interesting to take a peek at what Yellow & Blue would have looked like.

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Dan'l Miller]

On Friday, May 23, 2014 4:52:16 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote:
> (There were four original proposals. And I think they all were published in 
> some ACM publication (SIGPlan Notices??) - I remember reading them back when 
> I was still a student. There's only a detailed proposal for Red and Green, 
> of course, Yellow and Blue were chopped early.

Here is a start on such an ACM bibliography.  These are Edsger Dijkstra's commentaries on Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green, respectively, although I doubt that these commentaries are proper-supersets of the full specification submitted to the DoD:
["On the BLUE Language Submitted to the DoD", E.W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices 13(10):10-15 (Oct 1978)]. 
["On the YELLOW Language Submitted to the DoD", E.W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices 13(10):22-26, Oct 1978]. 
["On the RED Language Submitted to the DoD", E.W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices 13(10):27 (Oct 1978)]. 
["On the GREEN Language Submitted to the DoD", E.W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices 13(10):16-21 (Oct 1978)].

Wouldn't it be great if someone could motivate ACM to make scans of that historically-valuable issue available as bitmap-PDFs on ACM Digital Library?  Is anyone friends with Vinton Cerf or any of the other people of influence in ACM?  (ARPAnet-pioneer-&-Internet-luminary Vinton Cerf is the current president of the ACM.)

Conversely, Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green went through public comment phases.  Hence, they were probably distributed on paper to government-document-depository libraries by the GAO during the 1970s.

Of course, Dijkstra's commentary in 1978 needs to be taken with a grain of salt because of Dijkstra's apparent general disdain of the entire DoD language-cultivation procurement process.  Apparently as witnessed at the link below, Dijkstra had some skin in the game of seeing that all of Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green fail (or be tarnished or some other negative outcome, either partial or scorched-earth or somewhere in between):
http://CraftOfCoding.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/dijkstra-on-ada

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Bill Findlay]

On 27/05/2014 03:40, in article
aff1f881-6096-44b8-9e84-3d45a6c9b3b2@googlegroups.com, "Dan'l Miller"
<optikos@verizon.net> wrote:
 
> Of course, Dijkstra's commentary in 1978 needs to be taken with a grain of
> salt because of Dijkstra's apparent general disdain of the entire DoD
> language-cultivation procurement process.

I have spent some time reading through the Dijstra archive, and there are
few things for which he does not show disdain (apart from his ineffably
wonderful self, of course).

> Apparently as witnessed at the link
> below, Dijkstra had some skin in the game of seeing that all of Blue, Yellow,
> Red, and Green fail (or be tarnished or some other negative outcome, either
> partial or scorched-earth or somewhere in between):
> http://CraftOfCoding.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/dijkstra-on-ada

That comment to Ershov verges on the unhinged.

-- 
Bill Findlay
with blueyonder.co.uk;
use  surname & forename;

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Shark8]

On 23-May-14 15:52, Randy Brukardt wrote:
> You have some aversion to Yellow?

Not really -- but from what I heard (I thought it was you who commented 
on it) it was basically just Pascal with a few alterations/additions.

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Robert A Duff]

Shark8 <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> writes:

> On 23-May-14 15:52, Randy Brukardt wrote:
>> You have some aversion to Yellow?
>
> Not really -- but from what I heard (I thought it was you who commented
> on it) it was basically just Pascal with a few alterations/additions.

All four were supposedly based on Pascal.  I believe Yellow was closely
based on Pascal, but still, more than "basically just Pascal with...",
and the others were much more loosely based on Pascal.

Ada (even Ada 83) is of course hugely different from Pascal.

- Bob

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Bill Findlay]

Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote:
> Shark8 <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On 23-May-14 15:52, Randy Brukardt wrote:
>>> You have some aversion to Yellow?
>> 
>> Not really -- but from what I heard (I thought it was you who commented
>> on it) it was basically just Pascal with a few alterations/additions.
> 
> All four were supposedly based on Pascal.  I believe Yellow was closely
> based on Pascal, but still, more than "basically just Pascal with...",
> and the others were much more loosely based on Pascal.
> 
> Ada (even Ada 83) is of course hugely different from Pascal.

Wasn't one of them rather PL/1-like? BLUE?

-- 
Bill Findlay

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Robert A Duff]

Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:

> Wasn't one of them rather PL/1-like? BLUE?

I don't know.  Blue is the one I know least about.  I think it
relies heavily on exceptions.  I've read the Green, Red, and
Yellow manuals, but only looked at Blue fairly briefly.

- Bob

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Bill Findlay]

Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote:
> Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> Wasn't one of them rather PL/1-like? BLUE?
> 
> I don't know.  Blue is the one I know least about.  I think it
> relies heavily on exceptions.  I've read the Green, Red, and
> Yellow manuals, but only looked at Blue fairly briefly.

Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour, but I stupidly binned
them a long time ago.  8-(

-- 
Bill Findlay

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Nasser M. Abbasi]

On 5/28/2014 10:22 AM, Bill Findlay wrote:

> Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour,
>  but I stupidly binned
> them a long time ago.  8-(
>

what does "binned" then mean? You mean you threw them away?

OMG !!

These are very valuable collectable books now. You could
have sold them for lots of money.

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Bill Findlay]

On 30/05/2014 02:30, in article lm8mvs$9ff$1@speranza.aioe.org, "Nasser M.
Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> wrote:

> On 5/28/2014 10:22 AM, Bill Findlay wrote:
> 
>> Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour,
>>  but I stupidly binned
>> them a long time ago.  8-(
>> 
> 
> what does "binned" then mean? You mean you threw them away?

Yes, put them in a rubbish bin (= trash can in leftpondia). 8-(

-- 
Bill Findlay
with blueyonder.co.uk;
use  surname & forename;

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Dan'l Miller]

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:22:26 AM UTC-5, Bill Findlay wrote:
> Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour, but I stupidly binned
> them a long time ago.  8-(

Other than various forms of delivery by Col. Whittaker, what was the primary distribution mechanism of the  Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green tinman documents that underwent a so-called "extensive public review"?  (If delivery by Col. Whittaker was the only mechanism, I cannot see how that qualified as an extensive public review, indeed perhaps not even a public review at all.)

To be considered an extensive public review, these documents must have been made available publicly via non-ad-hoc document-distribution channels within the USA (e.g., GAO to government-depository libraries; entry as amendments into the Congressional Record; some form of DoD document distribution) or throughout NATO.  Do any of the people active in HOLWG during the 1970s remember obtaining the Blue, Yellow, Red, or Green specifications via any source other than Col. Whittaker and/or reading about them indirectly via Dijkstra's commentary in the SIGPLAN Notices bibliography above?  For example, yeah, back in the 1970s, I photocopied mine from the ones in the _________ library.  Or, yeah, back in the 1970s, I send a small check to cover postage to the postal address of the ________ office in the federal government, then they arrived a few weeks later in the U.S. Mail.

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Dan'l Miller]

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 5:19:14 PM UTC-5, Dan'l Miller wrote:
> ... the  Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green tinman documents

I meant Ironman there.

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Bill Findlay]

On 31/05/2014 23:19, in article
fd6d0715-1512-4c43-8f72-d330776c54c2@googlegroups.com, "Dan'l Miller"
<optikos@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:22:26 AM UTC-5, Bill Findlay wrote:
>> Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour, but I stupidly binned
>> them a long time ago.  8-(
> 
> Other than various forms of delivery by Col. Whittaker, what was the primary
> distribution mechanism of the  Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green tinman documents
> that underwent a so-called "extensive public review"?

I don't know the answer to that, but it is a very interesting question.
The implication is that there should be archived copies in official
organizations.

-- 
Bill Findlay
with blueyonder.co.uk;
use  surname & forename;

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Jeffrey Carter]

On 05/23/2014 02:15 PM, Shark8 wrote:
>
> Thank you!
> I'd be /very/ interested in Red and/or Blue if you happen to come across them.

The Red RM is at

http://www.iment.com/maida/computer/redref/index.htm

-- 
Jeff Carter
"Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine,
public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system,
and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
Monty Python's Life of Brian
80

Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language

[Luke A. Guest]

I would like to see the blue one specifically as I hear it was particularly
weird.