From: Charles D Hixson <charleshixsn@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:12:22 GMT
Date: 2007-01-27T05:12:22+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <WaBuh.15096$pQ3.10501@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.44.1169724732.18371.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>
Ali Bendriss wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 January 2007 06:37, adaworks@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> <artifact.one@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1169531612.200010.153120@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> My question is: how come Ada isn't more popular?
>> Ada suffered, in its early days, from a convergence of several
>> things. One is that the designers of the language did not anticipate
>> the impact of the personal computer and the democratization of
>> computing. There were other factors, as well.
>> [...]
>
> Does the fact that there is no "public" operating system written in Ada is one
> of this factor ?
> I think about the closest link between the C language and the *nix systems.
>
>
That's a factor, but only a small one, and getting smaller as
time goes on. I, personally, think that one factor IS the
lack of a standard garbage collector. Related to this is the
awkwardness of dealing with strings of varying lengths.
There are many features which aren't significant after you've
learned how to work your way around them that can be sizeable
blockages at the start.
Remember that at the start, Ada was competing solely against
C. C++ barely existed, and what did exist didn't bear that
much resemblance to what we now call C++. (I used to use C++
rather than C solely because of the typed constants.) At that
point C had to be cut down to compile on a micro-computer.
Look up BSD C or Lifeboat C. These were SUBSETS of C, but
they could be used, and they could call themselves C. (Once
you started using them, you became well aware that they were
subsets...works in progress as it were.) Ada subsets couldn't
use the name Ada. Janus Ada couldn't call itself Ada for
quite awhile. And even Janus Ada couldn't run on most CP/M
machines. Too resource intensive. I bought an Apple ][ to
run UCSD Pascal, and was so disappointed that I saved up and
installed a CP/M card so that I could run C. Ada wasn't a
possibility. (I never seriously considered Basic. It was too
non-portable. If I wanted non-portable, I'd go for assembler.)
Ada was HUGE and C++ was only a slight bit larger than C.
(The times they DO change!) At that time I was a PL/I
programmer on a mainframe, and Ada had a reputation that
caused me to both lust after it, and to fear it's
complexities. Actually, however, it was never a realistic
possibility. I couldn't run it on my home machine, and work
sure wasn't going to pay the have the service bureau install
it. So I dreamed about it...and Algol68, and Snobol, and IPL,
and APL, and LISP...and didn't take any of those dreams
seriously. But of those only Ada and Algol were frightening
as well as lust provoking.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-01-27 5:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 397+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-01-23 5:53 How come Ada isn't more popular? artifact.one
2007-01-23 6:37 ` adaworks
2007-01-23 6:50 ` artifact.one
2007-01-23 14:24 ` Arthur Evans Jr
2007-01-23 20:11 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 21:14 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 15:23 ` Ed Falis
2007-01-23 20:09 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 8:50 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-24 20:23 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 11:06 ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-24 19:25 ` tmoran
2007-01-25 4:46 ` Gautier
2007-01-25 9:29 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 16:59 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-27 20:40 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 21:19 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28 8:44 ` Ray Blaak
2007-01-29 8:56 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-29 14:21 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31 9:23 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-31 10:24 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 8:42 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-02 9:32 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-02-02 11:04 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-02 13:57 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 9:44 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:51 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 17:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:18 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 21:29 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 22:33 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 9:20 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 12:16 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-05 14:06 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 13:53 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 9:59 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-05 13:43 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 9:15 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-06 11:45 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 14:16 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-06 15:44 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 17:40 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-07 8:55 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07 9:30 ` GC in Ada Martin Krischik
2007-02-07 11:08 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 11:15 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07 11:53 ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-07 12:22 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08 7:26 ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-08 9:33 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 13:37 ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-09 13:47 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 15:29 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 20:52 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08 7:48 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08 8:20 ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-08 8:43 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 14:20 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 16:23 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-12 8:52 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-12 12:56 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08 18:24 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-09 8:57 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-09 12:57 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 14:44 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-10 13:38 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-12 8:47 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-12 15:31 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-09 18:35 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-10 19:01 ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-11 15:22 ` Pascal Obry
2007-02-11 20:30 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-13 18:47 ` Pascal Obry
2007-02-13 23:08 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-14 11:13 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-14 16:29 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-14 19:47 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-14 11:10 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-14 16:29 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-15 8:39 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-15 17:14 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-02-08 18:38 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 7:58 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 10:07 ` Martin Krischik
2007-02-09 14:10 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-07 12:19 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08 7:54 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08 9:49 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 10:10 ` How come Ada isn't more popular? Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 10:56 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 22:58 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08 9:04 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08 10:01 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 17:47 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 18:05 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-06 18:28 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 7:54 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-07 9:42 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08 8:10 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-08 18:14 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 8:17 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 14:02 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 18:08 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:43 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 18:57 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:03 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 18:47 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-09 19:02 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 19:35 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-09 19:52 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-12 7:20 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-12 14:12 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 22:11 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 22:05 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-10 1:31 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-10 2:18 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 19:05 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-09 8:01 ` adaworks
2007-02-09 9:07 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-02-09 10:36 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 12:50 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-09 14:02 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-10 18:21 ` adaworks
2007-02-10 18:41 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-10 20:29 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 14:12 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-09 19:41 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-12 9:07 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-12 20:56 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-13 9:02 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-02-14 10:12 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-09 9:21 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 21:42 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-28 19:32 ` Gautier
2007-01-30 19:41 ` tmoran
2007-01-25 22:21 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 11:31 ` Ali Bendriss
2007-01-27 5:12 ` Charles D Hixson [this message]
2007-01-27 9:52 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 22:01 ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-27 23:24 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28 9:14 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-28 15:06 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 14:37 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-29 15:50 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-30 19:58 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-30 21:52 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31 22:49 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 23:07 ` (see below)
2007-01-31 23:18 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 23:36 ` (see below)
2007-02-01 7:57 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-31 17:49 ` Ed Falis
2007-01-31 22:53 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-31 10:55 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-31 15:16 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 14:22 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-01 15:18 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 16:26 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-01 17:36 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 20:53 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-01 21:57 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 22:03 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-01 23:40 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 16:54 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-03 18:39 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 20:06 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 0:06 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 13:58 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-05 14:23 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 7:17 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-02-05 0:39 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05 1:00 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 9:20 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 12:34 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 9:45 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:16 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 19:33 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:44 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 23:00 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 23:21 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 14:27 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-02 16:07 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-01 19:31 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-01 22:54 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-02-02 1:37 ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Ray Blaak
2007-02-02 9:35 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 12:44 ` in defense of GC Markus E Leypold
2007-02-03 10:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:28 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 18:38 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 20:24 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 21:57 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-04 22:47 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-04 23:08 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 15:57 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 8:47 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-05 14:03 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 0:23 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05 0:55 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 0:01 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-06 1:06 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-05 1:00 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-05 1:19 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 8:32 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 11:07 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 18:01 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 18:25 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-06 19:42 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 0:18 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-06 0:59 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 1:07 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 18:15 ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Ray Blaak
2007-02-02 19:35 ` Adam Beneschan
2007-02-02 20:04 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-02 22:40 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-03 10:00 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-03 14:30 ` in defense of GC Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 12:36 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-02 21:50 ` in defense of GC (was Re: How come Ada isn't more popular?) Gautier
2007-02-04 8:19 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-04 17:36 ` Hyman Rosen
2007-02-04 21:21 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-05 1:12 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-05 9:06 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 0:28 ` in defense of GC Robert A Duff
2007-02-06 8:24 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-06 11:50 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 7:44 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-07 8:54 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 11:19 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-07 23:32 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-08 8:49 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 14:09 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 16:17 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 20:51 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-09 22:19 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-08 9:24 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-02-09 15:08 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-02-07 19:01 ` Ray Blaak
2007-02-07 11:17 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 16:23 ` How come Ada isn't more popular? Georg Bauhaus
2007-01-29 16:56 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 23:56 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-23 6:58 ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-23 10:31 ` Talulah
2007-01-23 13:48 ` Anders Wirzenius
2007-01-23 20:17 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 20:43 ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 9:42 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 20:48 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 10:02 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-23 16:49 ` adaworks
2007-01-23 17:40 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 12:51 ` Peter Hermann
2007-01-24 14:42 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 20:10 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-23 22:37 ` Frank J. Lhota
2007-01-24 7:27 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 9:50 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 20:25 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 21:34 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 9:23 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 7:59 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-26 20:05 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 22:43 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-23 21:19 ` Björn Persson
2007-01-23 10:38 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-23 12:58 ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-23 21:56 ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2007-01-24 13:52 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-24 19:25 ` tmoran
2007-01-24 19:38 ` artifact.one
2007-01-26 2:50 ` Keith Thompson
2007-01-26 5:29 ` Gautier
2007-01-27 5:22 ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-23 19:16 ` Tero Koskinen
2007-01-23 21:12 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24 9:59 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-24 18:22 ` Yves Bailly
2007-01-24 19:18 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 8:37 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-25 9:40 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 8:52 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-26 11:40 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 16:56 ` Stephen Leake
2007-01-27 19:58 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-28 17:12 ` Ed Falis
2007-01-28 18:38 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 10:13 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25 12:54 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 7:03 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25 13:08 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 22:36 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 23:26 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 4:23 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 11:35 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 20:22 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-26 23:04 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-27 19:57 ` Frank J. Lhota
2007-01-28 20:43 ` adaworks
2007-01-28 22:57 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 1:04 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-28 20:32 ` adaworks
2007-01-28 21:12 ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-28 22:43 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 22:40 ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-30 9:31 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-30 16:19 ` adaworks
2007-01-30 21:05 ` Jeffrey Creem
2007-01-31 7:59 ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-02-03 16:33 ` Martin Krischik
2007-01-28 22:38 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 16:16 ` adaworks
2007-01-29 16:35 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 1:02 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-30 0:21 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-26 7:21 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-26 7:16 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-27 5:30 ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-24 20:10 ` Cesar Rabak
2007-01-23 20:02 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 7:18 ` adaworks
2007-01-24 14:19 ` Alex R. Mosteo
2007-01-24 15:27 ` Poll on background of Ada people (was: How come Ada isn't more po) Larry Kilgallen
2007-01-23 21:36 ` How come Ada isn't more popular? kevin cline
2007-01-23 22:18 ` Martin Dowie
2007-01-24 4:14 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-24 7:30 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 20:15 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-25 22:16 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 23:32 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 8:50 ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-26 11:52 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 6:16 ` AW: " Grein, Christoph (Fa. ESG)
2007-01-29 14:31 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 8:56 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-26 11:49 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-26 22:05 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-24 7:31 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-24 7:42 ` kevin cline
2007-01-24 8:07 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24 12:12 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 12:48 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-24 14:49 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 13:40 ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 14:50 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 17:22 ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 17:56 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 18:09 ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 19:37 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-24 19:52 ` Pascal Obry
2007-01-24 21:31 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-03-19 2:09 ` adaworks
2007-01-25 7:52 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-24 16:25 ` Adam Beneschan
2007-01-24 17:03 ` Niklas Holsti
2007-01-25 15:37 ` Bob Spooner
2007-02-06 9:54 ` Dave Thompson
2007-02-06 11:01 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-02-26 5:47 ` Dave Thompson
2007-01-24 16:14 ` adaworks
2007-01-25 0:22 ` kevin cline
2007-01-25 6:04 ` adaworks
2007-01-25 10:37 ` Maciej Sobczak
2007-01-25 23:36 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-25 10:42 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-25 8:27 ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-01-25 4:50 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-27 5:43 ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-27 8:38 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-01-28 12:11 ` Michael Bode
2007-01-28 15:20 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-01-29 9:44 ` Martin Krischik
2007-01-27 13:06 ` Gautier
2007-01-27 16:28 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-28 0:55 ` Charles D Hixson
2007-01-28 1:18 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-01-28 17:06 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-28 21:11 ` adaworks
2007-01-24 19:33 ` Arthur Evans Jr
[not found] ` <egYth.15026$w91.10597@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
2007-01-25 22:34 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-25 22:55 ` Robert A Duff
2007-01-26 19:59 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-01-27 3:54 ` Randy Brukardt
2007-01-24 0:12 ` JPWoodruff
2007-01-24 10:32 ` gautier_niouzes
2007-01-25 1:01 ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-01-26 5:01 ` JPWoodruff
2007-03-05 2:19 ` Brian May
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-02-10 4:18 Randy Brukardt
2007-02-10 9:15 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-10 13:22 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-10 15:54 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-02-12 14:23 ` Robert A Duff
2007-02-12 15:49 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
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