Re: is Ada dying?

["chris.danx" <chris.danx@ntlworld.com>]

"John English" <je@brighton.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3BC30674.BA88AAB6@brighton.ac.uk...
> "chris.danx" wrote:
> >
> > "Ralph M�ritz" <ralph@work.co.za> wrote in message
> > news:Xns9133DBAF0AD71ralphworkcoza@196.25.240.158...
> > > I think that's sad, and now that
> > > Ada's parents (the  U.S DoD) are dropping Ada 95 what does the future
hold
> > > in store? Is it worthwhile learning a language nobody appreciates or
uses?
> >
> > They teach it at a few uni's now.  Don't know how if its uptake is more
than
> > before; might be interesting to find out.
>
> Several have switched to Java.

I don't want to start another Ada vs. x barny* but I'd of thought Java is
not good enough yet to teach students even if it is popular (they teach Java
in the higher levels of the courses at our uni, though thankfully I'm
nowhere near that yet).  It's too immature.  I programmed in Java for a
while about 3 years ago (before Ada) and now I couldn't fathom it's
libraries (changing 1.1 from 1.2).  They keep changing everything and you
really need to devote yourself to it, which I don't think you can do for any
language when teaching it.  I mean if you teach them to use some classes
then you'll need to say to them "wait... the class has changed slightly (or
drastically)! now do this" if you intend them to have any chance of getting
a job.  This is exactly the reason why I choose not to program in Java
unless forced to do so.  It's not stable enough *yet* (and soon it won't
matter, with JGNAT and AppletMagic being available).

[ * Those barnies really annoy me.  What's the point in it all? Don't you
know it make's ppl look silly and put's ppl off you and possibly your
language? ]

>  Reasons include lack of beginner's texts
> (which are all out of print because the market is too small because no-one
> teaches it anymore...

Is that what happened to your book?  A bigger company swallowed your
publisher and decided it's a minority language in the class and so chose not
publish Ada intro books?  If so, that's not very nice at all.

The market for Ada books is wierd.  Last year our lecturer said that the
handout notes were actually part of a book a few of them had written about
Ada but they decided not to publish because the market for introductory
texts for Ada was saturated (too many books circulating already).  It's
interesting now that it's been deemed too small a market for intro texts.
Maybe that's what he meant, and I misunderstood him.

[
Have you thought about using JEWL in a book, John?  It seems that most ppl
nowadays think if it's not got some kind of GUI in it, then it's old and
useless.  JEWL is simple enough that it could be used in introductory Ada
courses/books to give it a better look (many uni's use NT for first year so
the current windows aimed implementation wouldn't really be a problem).  I
know that the CS department here used the Win32 binding that came with GNAT
to build a set of packages which displayed a room in which simple commands
to navigate the room full of obsticles.  They used this throughout the
introductory course (instead of the text based stuff) and switched to
AdaGraph for some more complex graphics work.  It looks like it worked a
treat (just going on some non-geek opinions -- ppl who've never done any
programming or CS before they hit the course).  JEWL is simple enough to use
to introduce Ada and yet complex enough for some more substantial topics.
Just a thought.
]

> ) and, more importantly, lack of standard libraries
> for GUI development, networking, and data collections. Although there
> are plenty around, none of them are *standard*, so the perception is that
> Ada can't do these things.

That's a real shame.  I don't know about networking or data collections
(don't use such things) for Ada but the GUI development tools for Ada are
real nice -- namely GtkAda and Gwindows.  [ The only problem I have with
them is they're tied to GNAT quite tightly or appear to be.  If a new
compiler comes a long at least one of those toolkits will need some porting,
until it does or develops alternatives I don't think it has any chance
against GNAT].

Do any of the aforementioned GUI technologies work with Aonix or do you have
to purchase CLAW or something?


Chris
--

p.s. please unconfuse me...  I like GNAT but it's license confuses me.  What
exactly does it allow of a developer?  While I'm not interested in
developing closed source apps, (I like open source too much) I don't really
know the stance of GNAT on this.  I know it's GPL-ish itself but what about
the apps you produce?  The same goes for GWindows, I think it's the same
license or similar?  Small companies might not be able to afford a
commercial GNAT license, so what does the public version allow?

I know it's slightly OT but it's important since I don't want to spread
misinformation or put my foot in it (so to speak).

p.p.s. Sorry for the long post, some of these issues and questions came up
when discussing the suggested need for a cheap alternative to GNAT.