* Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) @ 2002-01-17 14:44 Dale Pontius 2002-01-17 19:47 ` Dan Andreatta ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Dale Pontius @ 2002-01-17 14:44 UTC (permalink / raw) I am taking up some new work, and would like to do it in Ada. However there is a strong 'Do it in C so others can pick it up' bias, which I guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and have the occasional conversion to C to play well with others. This probably needs to be free, as well, since it wouldn't cost money if if I just started the project in C. (Can't justify) I did a quick scan at www.adahome.org without luck. I'll also need to link in C libs, but that should be straightforward and in the documentation. At the moment, I'm not going to fight any sort of C vs Ada battles, and I'd just as soon keep it completely under the table. Iff I start to show spectacular developmental speed and track record for bugs, then I might surface it. I may have managed to win a minor VHDL vs Verilog fight for part (but not all) of the project, because Verilog couldn't describe everything that needed done as simply as VHDL. I'm not going to push my luck. So for the moment, I need an Ada to C converter, and comments on how human-readable the resulting code is. Thanks, Dale Pontius ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-17 14:44 Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) Dale Pontius @ 2002-01-17 19:47 ` Dan Andreatta 2002-01-18 14:12 ` Dale Pontius ` (2 more replies) 2002-01-17 20:43 ` Jim Rogers 2002-01-18 19:48 ` Ted Dennison 2 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Dan Andreatta @ 2002-01-17 19:47 UTC (permalink / raw) pontius@btv.MBI.com.invalid (Dale Pontius) wrote in news:a26o04$jfc$1@news.btv.ibm.com: > I am taking up some new work, and would like to do it in Ada. However > there is a strong 'Do it in C so others can pick it up' bias, which I > guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and > have the occasional conversion to C to play well with others. This > probably needs to be free, as well, since it wouldn't cost money if > if I just started the project in C. (Can't justify) I did a quick scan > at www.adahome.org without luck. I'll also need to link in C libs, but > that should be straightforward and in the documentation. > > At the moment, I'm not going to fight any sort of C vs Ada battles, > and I'd just as soon keep it completely under the table. Iff I start > to show spectacular developmental speed and track record for bugs, > then I might surface it. I may have managed to win a minor VHDL vs > Verilog fight for part (but not all) of the project, because Verilog > couldn't describe everything that needed done as simply as VHDL. I'm > not going to push my luck. > > So for the moment, I need an Ada to C converter, and comments on how > human-readable the resulting code is. > > Thanks, > Dale Pontius If you can live with C++, you could take a look at www.ada2cc.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-17 19:47 ` Dan Andreatta @ 2002-01-18 14:12 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 19:15 ` Dan Andreatta 2002-01-18 23:13 ` Frode Tennebø 2002-01-18 17:13 ` Ray Blaak 2002-01-21 11:13 ` Peter 2 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Dale Pontius @ 2002-01-18 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <Xns9199960B37554andreattamailchemsce@12.253.140.251>, Dan Andreatta <andreatta@mail.chem.sc.edu.REMOVEME> writes: > pontius@btv.MBI.com.invalid (Dale Pontius) wrote in > news:a26o04$jfc$1@news.btv.ibm.com: > >> I am taking up some new work, and would like to do it in Ada. However >> there is a strong 'Do it in C so others can pick it up' bias, which I >> guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and >> have the occasional conversion to C to play well with others. This >> probably needs to be free, as well, since it wouldn't cost money if >> if I just started the project in C. (Can't justify) I did a quick scan >> at www.adahome.org without luck. I'll also need to link in C libs, but >> that should be straightforward and in the documentation. >> >> At the moment, I'm not going to fight any sort of C vs Ada battles, >> and I'd just as soon keep it completely under the table. Iff I start >> to show spectacular developmental speed and track record for bugs, >> then I might surface it. I may have managed to win a minor VHDL vs >> Verilog fight for part (but not all) of the project, because Verilog >> couldn't describe everything that needed done as simply as VHDL. I'm >> not going to push my luck. >> >> So for the moment, I need an Ada to C converter, and comments on how >> human-readable the resulting code is. >> >> Thanks, >> Dale Pontius > > > If you can live with C++, you could take a look at www.ada2cc.com. I can live with conversion to C++, but I can't live with commercial. Using Ada will be a stealth issue. Anything above-board would have to be C, C++, or perhaps Java. Dale Pontius (NOT speaking for IBM) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 14:12 ` Dale Pontius @ 2002-01-18 19:15 ` Dan Andreatta 2002-01-18 22:44 ` Zoran 2002-01-18 23:13 ` Frode Tennebø 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Dan Andreatta @ 2002-01-18 19:15 UTC (permalink / raw) Using Google, searching for ada2d, I found a couple of sites. Unfortunately in one they just say they did it, and in the other the links are broken. However, this is what I found: http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~zoran/ http://www.ceng.metu.edu.tr/~e106170/aysecv.html HTH Dan -- D. Andreatta Univ. of S. Carolina Chemistry Dept. Bruce I: ... American beer is a little like making love in a canoe! Bruce III: Making love in a canoe? Bruce I: It's f***ing close to water! --- Monty Python, "The Bruces", Live at the Holliwood Bowl ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 19:15 ` Dan Andreatta @ 2002-01-18 22:44 ` Zoran 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Zoran @ 2002-01-18 22:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Fixed: http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~zoran/ada2c.arj It was just a small term project, so don't expect too much... --zoran Dan Andreatta <andreatta@mail.chem.sc.edu> wrote in message news:<Xns919A90899DA2andreattamailchemsce@12.253.140.251>... > Using Google, searching for ada2d, I found a couple of sites. Unfortunately > in one they just say they did it, and in the other the links are broken. > However, this is what I found: > http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~zoran/ > http://www.ceng.metu.edu.tr/~e106170/aysecv.html > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 14:12 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 19:15 ` Dan Andreatta @ 2002-01-18 23:13 ` Frode Tennebø 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Frode Tennebø @ 2002-01-18 23:13 UTC (permalink / raw) On Friday 18 January 2002 15:12 Dale Pontius wrote: > I can live with conversion to C++, but I can't live with commercial. > Using Ada will be a stealth issue. Anything above-board would have to > be C, C++, or perhaps Java. Just a crazy idea: Write it in Ada, compile it into Java bytecode (JGNAT) and use any of the Java decompilers out there to get Java (if you absolutely have to). :) -Frode -- ^ Frode Tenneb� | email: frode@tennebo.com | Frode@IRC ^ | with Standard.Disclaimer; use Standard.Disclaimer; | ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-17 19:47 ` Dan Andreatta 2002-01-18 14:12 ` Dale Pontius @ 2002-01-18 17:13 ` Ray Blaak 2002-01-20 19:43 ` Nick Roberts 2002-01-21 11:13 ` Peter 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Ray Blaak @ 2002-01-18 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Dan Andreatta <andreatta@mail.chem.sc.edu.REMOVEME> writes: > pontius@btv.MBI.com.invalid (Dale Pontius) wrote in > news:a26o04$jfc$1@news.btv.ibm.com: > > > I am taking up some new work, and would like to do it in Ada. However > > there is a strong 'Do it in C so others can pick it up' bias, which I > > guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and > > have the occasional conversion to C to play well with others. This > > probably needs to be free, as well, since it wouldn't cost money if > > if I just started the project in C. (Can't justify) I did a quick scan > > at www.adahome.org without luck. I'll also need to link in C libs, but > > that should be straightforward and in the documentation. If it has to be in C so that others can potentially develop and maintain it, then it makes no sense to convert to C from Ada at all. Conversion raises issues that otherwise would not exist, simply complicating things, creating unnecessary problems. Think about it: any C warts and issues will exist anyway, and with conversion you would further have to deal Ada->C incompatibilities, possible unusal link libraries, potentially unnatural machine generated C code, etc. Write it in C from the beginning. Just use your "Ada sensibilities" to ensure that your C code is the best on your team. -- Cheers, The Rhythm is around me, The Rhythm has control. Ray Blaak The Rhythm is inside me, blaak@telus.net The Rhythm has my soul. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 17:13 ` Ray Blaak @ 2002-01-20 19:43 ` Nick Roberts 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Nick Roberts @ 2002-01-20 19:43 UTC (permalink / raw) "Ray Blaak" <blaak@telus.net> wrote in message news:u8zavy44g.fsf@telus.net... > Write it in C from the beginning. Just use your "Ada sensibilities" to ensure > that your C code is the best on your team. 100% endorsed. -- Best wishes, Nick Roberts ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-17 19:47 ` Dan Andreatta 2002-01-18 14:12 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 17:13 ` Ray Blaak @ 2002-01-21 11:13 ` Peter 2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Peter @ 2002-01-21 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <Xns9199960B37554andreattamailchemsce@12.253.140.251>, Dan says... > > > >If you can live with C++, you could take a look at www.ada2cc.com. wow! I had no idea such a thing existed! If the above is really good, this could be the best thing ever to happen to Ada. Why? Becuase now many of us can code in Ada, then translate the code to C++ to hand it over to the bean counters who want to see only C/C++ code. This way, Ada will live on and prosper. Peter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-17 14:44 Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) Dale Pontius 2002-01-17 19:47 ` Dan Andreatta @ 2002-01-17 20:43 ` Jim Rogers 2002-01-18 14:19 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 19:48 ` Ted Dennison 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Jim Rogers @ 2002-01-17 20:43 UTC (permalink / raw) Dale Pontius wrote: > I am taking up some new work, and would like to do it in Ada. However > there is a strong 'Do it in C so others can pick it up' bias, which I > guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and Actually, it makes no sense, but opening that can or worms begins the language war. If a person is a competent C programmer he or she should be able to learn a new language with minimal effort. My own experience is that it was easier to learn Ada, knowing C first, than it was to read and understand a lot of C programs. I am now in the business of training people in computer languages. I have little patience for the argument that learning a new language is a significant barrier to productivity. > have the occasional conversion to C to play well with others. This > probably needs to be free, as well, since it wouldn't cost money if > if I just started the project in C. (Can't justify) I did a quick scan > at www.adahome.org without luck. I'll also need to link in C libs, but > that should be straightforward and in the documentation. > When you say "play well with others", do you mean that others will take over the maintenance of the C pieces, or simply that others will want to call the Ada libraries from C? These are really two different issues, and should be handled separately. > At the moment, I'm not going to fight any sort of C vs Ada battles, > and I'd just as soon keep it completely under the table. Iff I start > to show spectacular developmental speed and track record for bugs, > then I might surface it. I may have managed to win a minor VHDL vs > Verilog fight for part (but not all) of the project, because Verilog > couldn't describe everything that needed done as simply as VHDL. I'm > not going to push my luck. > Is there already any history of mixed-language development for your team? This includes such pieces as shell scripts, perl scripts, C++ libraries, or assembler routines. My guess is that your product already uses some mixture of C and other languages. This situation is not currently a political problem. Try to deal with Ada in this light. > So for the moment, I need an Ada to C converter, and comments on how > human-readable the resulting code is. Good luck. Jim Rogers Colorado Springs, Colorado USA ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-17 20:43 ` Jim Rogers @ 2002-01-18 14:19 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 16:29 ` Larry Hazel ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Dale Pontius @ 2002-01-18 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3C47375B.8060604@worldnet.att.net>, Jim Rogers <jimmaureenrogers@worldnet.att.net> writes: > Dale Pontius wrote: > >> I am taking up some new work, and would like to do it in Ada. However >> there is a strong 'Do it in C so others can pick it up' bias, which I >> guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and > > > Actually, it makes no sense, but opening that can or worms begins the > language war. If a person is a competent C programmer he or she should > be able to learn a new language with minimal effort. My own experience > is that it was easier to learn Ada, knowing C first, than it was to > read and understand a lot of C programs. > Doesn't matter. This is a rather conservative area, and "C is the way to program, though perhaps C++ or Java would be OK." Note that this is also not a programming area, it's silicon design. Sometimes you have to turn part-time programmer to get the silicon out. This is one of those. ... >> have the occasional conversion to C to play well with others. This >> probably needs to be free, as well, since it wouldn't cost money if >> if I just started the project in C. (Can't justify) I did a quick scan >> at www.adahome.org without luck. I'll also need to link in C libs, but >> that should be straightforward and in the documentation. > > When you say "play well with others", do you mean that others will > take over the maintenance of the C pieces, or simply that others will > want to call the Ada libraries from C? These are really two different > issues, and should be handled separately. > One perpetual concern is, "How does this stuff get maintained when XXXX moves on?" For that reason, they want a mainstream language, especially considering (as mentioned above) the programmers here do it on the side, not as a profession. > ... > Is there already any history of mixed-language development for your > team? This includes such pieces as shell scripts, perl scripts, > C++ libraries, or assembler routines. My guess is that your product > already uses some mixture of C and other languages. This situation > is not currently a political problem. Try to deal with Ada in this > light. > Obviously yet. Mix of C, C++, ksh, perl, rexx, and I've thrown Python into the mix. But I suspect Ada is too far out for acceptance. I had a tough enough time getting VHDL in where needed, and avoiding a Verilog-only mandate, but only because Verilog couldn't have easily done that part of the job. The bulk of the HDL is still Verilog, and the VHDL will get translated after doing its special part. As I mentioned on the other subthread, Ada to C, C++, or Java would probably be equally acceptable. Dale Pontius NOT speaking for IBM ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 14:19 ` Dale Pontius @ 2002-01-18 16:29 ` Larry Hazel 2002-01-18 17:21 ` Ray Blaak 2002-01-18 17:18 ` Stephen Leake 2002-01-18 23:04 ` Brian Rogoff 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Larry Hazel @ 2002-01-18 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Dale Pontius wrote: > > In article <3C47375B.8060604@worldnet.att.net>, > Jim Rogers <jimmaureenrogers@worldnet.att.net> writes: > > Dale Pontius wrote: > > > >> I am taking up some new work, and would like to do it in Ada. However > >> there is a strong 'Do it in C so others can pick it up' bias, which I > >> guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and > > > > > > Actually, it makes no sense, but opening that can or worms begins the > > language war. If a person is a competent C programmer he or she should > > be able to learn a new language with minimal effort. My own experience > > is that it was easier to learn Ada, knowing C first, than it was to > > read and understand a lot of C programs. > > > Doesn't matter. This is a rather conservative area, and "C is the way > to program, though perhaps C++ or Java would be OK." Note that this is > also not a programming area, it's silicon design. Sometimes you have > to turn part-time programmer to get the silicon out. This is one of > those. > > ... > >> have the occasional conversion to C to play well with others. This > >> probably needs to be free, as well, since it wouldn't cost money if > >> if I just started the project in C. (Can't justify) I did a quick scan > >> at www.adahome.org without luck. I'll also need to link in C libs, but > >> that should be straightforward and in the documentation. > > > > When you say "play well with others", do you mean that others will > > take over the maintenance of the C pieces, or simply that others will > > want to call the Ada libraries from C? These are really two different > > issues, and should be handled separately. > > > One perpetual concern is, "How does this stuff get maintained when > XXXX moves on?" For that reason, they want a mainstream language, > especially considering (as mentioned above) the programmers here do > it on the side, not as a profession. > > > ... > > Is there already any history of mixed-language development for your > > team? This includes such pieces as shell scripts, perl scripts, > > C++ libraries, or assembler routines. My guess is that your product > > already uses some mixture of C and other languages. This situation > > is not currently a political problem. Try to deal with Ada in this > > light. > > > Obviously yet. Mix of C, C++, ksh, perl, rexx, and I've thrown Python > into the mix. But I suspect Ada is too far out for acceptance. I had > a tough enough time getting VHDL in where needed, and avoiding a > Verilog-only mandate, but only because Verilog couldn't have easily > done that part of the job. The bulk of the HDL is still Verilog, and > the VHDL will get translated after doing its special part. > > As I mentioned on the other subthread, Ada to C, C++, or Java would > probably be equally acceptable. > > Dale Pontius > NOT speaking for IBM The few times I have been required to write in C, I wrote Ada anyway. Then commented out the ada and hand translated to C. The only comments were the Ada code and comments that were originally in the Ada code. Larry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 16:29 ` Larry Hazel @ 2002-01-18 17:21 ` Ray Blaak 2002-01-18 18:14 ` Larry Hazel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Ray Blaak @ 2002-01-18 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Larry Hazel <lhhazel@otelco.net> writes: > The few times I have been required to write in C, I wrote Ada anyway. Then > commented out the ada and hand translated to C. The only comments were the > Ada code and comments that were originally in the Ada code. I guess I am fundamentally a lazy programmer. Why implement it twice? This increases the chance for errors and is more work. When (not if!) you fix a bug, do you fix only the C code, or the Ada as well? How do you test the Ada fixes? If you have to write in a particular programming language (I mean just *have* to), it is fundamentally more efficient to write directly in that language, even if that language is deficient, using that language's mode of thought (influenced, of course, by the wisdom that Ada experience provides). -- Cheers, The Rhythm is around me, The Rhythm has control. Ray Blaak The Rhythm is inside me, blaak@telus.net The Rhythm has my soul. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 17:21 ` Ray Blaak @ 2002-01-18 18:14 ` Larry Hazel 2002-01-18 20:25 ` tmoran 2002-01-19 18:58 ` Ray Blaak 0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Larry Hazel @ 2002-01-18 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Ray Blaak wrote: > > Larry Hazel <lhhazel@otelco.net> writes: > > The few times I have been required to write in C, I wrote Ada anyway. Then > > commented out the ada and hand translated to C. The only comments were the > > Ada code and comments that were originally in the Ada code. > > I guess I am fundamentally a lazy programmer. > > Why implement it twice? This increases the chance for errors and is more work. > > When (not if!) you fix a bug, do you fix only the C code, or the Ada as well? > How do you test the Ada fixes? > Well, you should document your code with comments anyway, and you should change the comments when you change the code for whatever reason. Actually the Ada code I wrote probably wasn't compilable anyway (more like pseudo code), but much more readable than the C code could ever be. It's the only way I could ever write anything in C. Never have been able to read C and figure out what it's supposed to be doing. Larry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 18:14 ` Larry Hazel @ 2002-01-18 20:25 ` tmoran 2002-01-19 7:32 ` Simon Wright 2002-01-19 18:58 ` Ray Blaak 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: tmoran @ 2002-01-18 20:25 UTC (permalink / raw) > > > The few times I have been required to write in C, I wrote Ada anyway. > > Why implement it twice? This increases the chance for errors and is more work. > Actually the Ada code I wrote probably wasn't compilable anyway > (more like pseudo code), I've written and debugged in Ada, then transliterated to a C deliverable. It was faster than trying to get it running in C in the first place. Once it was translated, of course, any further changes were strictly in the C version. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 20:25 ` tmoran @ 2002-01-19 7:32 ` Simon Wright 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Simon Wright @ 2002-01-19 7:32 UTC (permalink / raw) tmoran@acm.org writes: > > > > The few times I have been required to write in C, I wrote Ada anyway. > > > Why implement it twice? This increases the chance for errors and is more work. > > Actually the Ada code I wrote probably wasn't compilable anyway > > (more like pseudo code), > I've written and debugged in Ada, then transliterated to a C > deliverable. It was faster than trying to get it running in C in the > first place. Once it was translated, of course, any further changes > were strictly in the C version. Ada to assembler, in my case, in about 1984. The Ada was the documentation, so of course it had to change (don't know what the maintainers are doing now, don't think it's been touched for years ..) I don't remember how many defects there were in the assembler as-coded, but there was only one in the assembler as-delivered. I was very proud of that. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 18:14 ` Larry Hazel 2002-01-18 20:25 ` tmoran @ 2002-01-19 18:58 ` Ray Blaak 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Ray Blaak @ 2002-01-19 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw) Larry Hazel <lhhazel@otelco.net> writes: > Ray Blaak wrote: > > When (not if!) you fix a bug, do you fix only the C code, or the Ada as > > well? How do you test the Ada fixes? > > Well, you should document your code with comments anyway, and you should > change the comments when you change the code for whatever reason. Actually > the Ada code I wrote probably wasn't compilable anyway (more like pseudo > code), but much more readable than the C code could ever be. It's the only > way I could ever write anything in C. Never have been able to read C and > figure out what it's supposed to be doing. True, comments should be kept in synch. However, pseudo-code comments are a major pain to maintain. If one eliminates them, the amount of work is that much less. There is no reason in the standard languages why actual code cannot be its own pseudo-code. The use of appropriate identifiers and the appropriate decomposition of logic into suitable routines lets the high-level logic of the code be easily seen. C/C++'s basic control flow constructs are not really that much different from Ada's. Even if some arcane bit twiddling is involved, one can always parcel that up behind some suitably named routine. -- Cheers, The Rhythm is around me, The Rhythm has control. Ray Blaak The Rhythm is inside me, blaak@telus.net The Rhythm has my soul. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 14:19 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 16:29 ` Larry Hazel @ 2002-01-18 17:18 ` Stephen Leake 2002-01-18 23:04 ` Brian Rogoff 2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2002-01-18 17:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Just offering sympathy; I have no solution to your problem. Although you might try writing Ada and seeing if anybody actually objects to "picking it up"; it is easier to get forgiveness than permission :). You could manually translate it to C at that time, if necessary. pontius@btv.MBI.com.invalid (Dale Pontius) writes: > One perpetual concern is, "How does this stuff get maintained when > XXXX moves on?" For that reason, they want a mainstream language, > especially considering (as mentioned above) the programmers here do > it on the side, not as a profession. I get the same response, even when we _are_ writing software as a profession. I recently had occasion to confront my boss on why UML was "ok", but Ada was "bad" (both are being proposed for new projects; we have no history of using either). She was honest enough to admit it was because "UML is a buzzword". Maybe I'll get her to consider real issues yet! -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 14:19 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 16:29 ` Larry Hazel 2002-01-18 17:18 ` Stephen Leake @ 2002-01-18 23:04 ` Brian Rogoff 2002-01-19 7:34 ` Simon Wright 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Brian Rogoff @ 2002-01-18 23:04 UTC (permalink / raw) On 18 Jan 2002, Dale Pontius wrote: > In article <3C47375B.8060604@worldnet.att.net>, > Jim Rogers <jimmaureenrogers@worldnet.att.net> writes: > > Dale Pontius wrote: > > > >> I am taking up some new work, and would like to do it in Ada. However > >> there is a strong 'Do it in C so others can pick it up' bias, which I > >> guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and Fuggedaboutit. Better to just use some decent C libraries http://www.cs.princeton.edu/software/cii and a tool like splint http://www.splint.org/ to make your C as clean and type safe as possible. > > Actually, it makes no sense, but opening that can or worms begins the > > language war. If a person is a competent C programmer he or she should > > be able to learn a new language with minimal effort. My own experience > > is that it was easier to learn Ada, knowing C first, than it was to > > read and understand a lot of C programs. I agree completely with Jim Rogers, but getting an organization to adopt a language because one programmer likes it is nearly impossible. > Doesn't matter. This is a rather conservative area, and "C is the way > to program, though perhaps C++ or Java would be OK." Note that this is > also not a programming area, it's silicon design. Sometimes you have > to turn part-time programmer to get the silicon out. This is one of > those. There are lots of C (and C++) as HDL tools floating about too. None for Ada. -- Brian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 23:04 ` Brian Rogoff @ 2002-01-19 7:34 ` Simon Wright 2002-01-20 17:32 ` Brian Rogoff 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Simon Wright @ 2002-01-19 7:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Brian Rogoff <bpr@bpr.best.vwh.net> writes: > I agree completely with Jim Rogers, but getting an organization to > adopt a language because one programmer likes it is nearly > impossible. But someone has to start the ball rolling! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-19 7:34 ` Simon Wright @ 2002-01-20 17:32 ` Brian Rogoff 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Brian Rogoff @ 2002-01-20 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw) On 19 Jan 2002, Simon Wright wrote: > Brian Rogoff <bpr@bpr.best.vwh.net> writes: > > I agree completely with Jim Rogers, but getting an organization to > > adopt a language because one programmer likes it is nearly > > impossible. > > But someone has to start the ball rolling! Well, Sisyphus, errr, Simon, if you happen to work in a place where you are the lone programmer maintaining some piece of code, or where you have lots of power, you may be able to effectively start that ball rolling, but Dale indicated that that is not the situation. If you're one of many equals, each with their own pet language, the chance that you'll rally everone behind Ada is vanishingly small. VHDL is a tough sell against Verilog in many places in the US, and VHDL is far, far, far more popular as an HDL than Ada is as a general purpose programming language. -- Brian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-17 14:44 Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) Dale Pontius 2002-01-17 19:47 ` Dan Andreatta 2002-01-17 20:43 ` Jim Rogers @ 2002-01-18 19:48 ` Ted Dennison 2002-01-18 20:02 ` Wes Groleau 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-01-18 19:48 UTC (permalink / raw) pontius@btv.MBI.com.invalid (Dale Pontius) wrote in message news:<a26o04$jfc$1@news.btv.ibm.com>... > guess makes some sense. So I'd like to do my development in Ada, and > have the occasional conversion to C to play well with others. This > probably needs to be free, as well, since it wouldn't cost money if > if I just started the project in C. (Can't justify) I did a quick scan > at www.adahome.org without luck. I'll also need to link in C libs, but > that should be straightforward and in the documentation. Converters are notoriously horrible. Intermetrics claims to have one that makes readable code, but it isn't free (and I have too many relatives from Missouri to believe that without seeing it). I have heard of people successfully using Ada as their PDL, and then using C for the actual code. Since Ada is more human-readable anyway, many people might not even realise your PDL is Ada. :-) Another possible approach, if its a one-man project and they are as open to alternate languages as you seem to imply they are, would be to just write it in Ada without raising it as an issue in the first place. You can't exactly get in trouble for not following orders if you were never given any. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) 2002-01-18 19:48 ` Ted Dennison @ 2002-01-18 20:02 ` Wes Groleau 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Wes Groleau @ 2002-01-18 20:02 UTC (permalink / raw) > I have heard of people successfully using Ada as their PDL, and then > using C for the actual code. Since Ada is more human-readable anyway, > many people might not even realise your PDL is Ada. :-) But the first guy that recognizes it may arouse the heresy hunters and set up the stake. :-) -- Wes Groleau http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-01-21 11:13 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2002-01-17 14:44 Porting Ada to C (Stealth development) Dale Pontius 2002-01-17 19:47 ` Dan Andreatta 2002-01-18 14:12 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 19:15 ` Dan Andreatta 2002-01-18 22:44 ` Zoran 2002-01-18 23:13 ` Frode Tennebø 2002-01-18 17:13 ` Ray Blaak 2002-01-20 19:43 ` Nick Roberts 2002-01-21 11:13 ` Peter 2002-01-17 20:43 ` Jim Rogers 2002-01-18 14:19 ` Dale Pontius 2002-01-18 16:29 ` Larry Hazel 2002-01-18 17:21 ` Ray Blaak 2002-01-18 18:14 ` Larry Hazel 2002-01-18 20:25 ` tmoran 2002-01-19 7:32 ` Simon Wright 2002-01-19 18:58 ` Ray Blaak 2002-01-18 17:18 ` Stephen Leake 2002-01-18 23:04 ` Brian Rogoff 2002-01-19 7:34 ` Simon Wright 2002-01-20 17:32 ` Brian Rogoff 2002-01-18 19:48 ` Ted Dennison 2002-01-18 20:02 ` Wes Groleau
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