More {OT] (Was Re: Compile time executed functions [OT])

[Brian Rogoff <bpr@shell5.ba.best.com>]

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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Karel [iso-8859-1] Thönissen wrote:
> Brian Rogoff schreef:
> 
> > it's a bit unfair to criticize Godel since we don't have an umlaut; I've
> > seen it spelled "Goedel" in umlaut free texts. And the Nederlands
> 
> Using the e for the umlaut is correct. Originally, the umlaut was a
> small e on its side.
> Said the Dutchman with an umlaut in his name (-8

So, my only questions would be about the "th" (I assume it's a regular t 
sound) and whether the "en" is a schwa, since lot's of Dutch speakers 
do that with a trailing en.  

> > challenged American might also spell it "Esher" since that's how we
> > pronounce that name, I'll have to check but if Escher is pronounced the
> > way it's spelled (I thought most Dutch words were) then the "ch" is like
> > the ch in Bach.
> 
> In Dutch, the name Escher is pronounced as /esher/. The correspondence
> of spelling and pronounciation is a lot better than in English, but not
> quite as good as in Italian, French or German. However, in this case we
> deal with a name that was originally German, therefore /esher/.
> 
> You are right on how the /sch/ is pronounced in general. This sound is
> so difficult for foreigners that it can be used as a password in times
> of war. Say Scheveningen.

When I visited I passed that test :-). The Hebraically challenged Dutchman 
can also note that a word which is so difficult for foreigners to pronounce 
that it is used as a password in times of war is a shibboleth, and is also 
a perfectly good English word. Now if Dutchmen had written the Bible after 
WWII the word would be scheveningen but then we'd pronounce it sheveningen 
and lose the whole point ;-).

> What is it that many English speaking people have with the spelling
> and/or pronounciation of the names of Dutch artists? 

Because we're ignorant, and many Dutch people are unfortunately ashamed of
their native language (unlike Flemish Belgians :) so they don't usually 
make an effort to educate foreigners. I really enjoy trying to learn at 
least a little of the language when I visit other countries, but it's hard 
in the Netherlands since practically everyone speaks English well.  

> Why is the name of Piet Mondriaan always spelled incorrectly?

You have to admit that the standard dictionary spelling in the Netherlands
changes quite frequently. If only the Ada standard would be updated as much!

> Or Vincent van Gogh's name > which is unrecognisably pronounced and
> alphabetized under /v/ instead of /g/ ?

We do that with all such names van, von, de, di, del...

"I'm an American honey, our names don't mean shit." 
Butch (character in 'Pulp Fiction')

-- Brian