Re: Misconception about Ada?

[Brian Rogoff <bpr@shell5.ba.best.com>]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Ted Dennison wrote:

> In article <Pine.BSF.4.21.0102130844300.1575-100000@shell5.ba.best.com>,
> Brian
> Rogoff says...
> >
> >On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Ted Dennison wrote:
> >> Interesting
> difference. I assume you picked this up from your Computer
> >> Science
> department?
> >
> >I was a Math guy. Hacking was part of the school's history and
> culture. Of
> 
> Ahh. So we are still back to the possiblity that the terminology
> difference
> stems from a CS vs. non-CS background. 

Not really. "Computer hacker" was a positive term to me as an
undergrad. It was (not that much) later that the term became 
misused. Hacking also involved various practical jokes, but they 
had to have a certain elegance to be considered hacks; putting sugar 
in someone's gas tanks isn't a hack, but if you could get that someone's 
car undamaged onto the roof of a building that might qualify.

> >Ever play speed chess? It's rather different from a regular chess
> game
> 
> Actually, the way I play chess is an excellent example. You can consider
> me sort
> of a "chess hacker", in my sense of the word "hacker". 

Even people who are good are "reduced" in their ability to do in depth
strategic planing in, say, a 5 minute game. It's still lots of fun though. 

I play each move
> as its
> own game, with no overriding plan (and no idea how to make one). As a
> result,

Well, the problem you're describing is that you don't know how to play
chess at all, except that maybe you know the rules. This isn't analogous
at all to the rapid programming hacker, who may be an expert programmer
working under time pressure with an incomplete spec. 

 > I'm incapable of beating anyone who's any good. In particular:
>   o  I
> walk right into traps.
>   o  My position after the first few moves is always a
> complete mess.
>   o  I take forever to perform a move.

Why? If you don't know what you're doing you may as well move randomly :-)
I'd suggest picking up a book on the basic principles of chess, or just 
give up playing. I can't imagine it would be any fun playing if I didn't
have a very basic grasp of the "physics" of chess. My Go knowledge is 
unfortunately weak, and I don't know that I'll ever have the chance to
remedy that :-(.

> >programming is even more
> valuable in rapid development. Once you've got
> >the basics of Ada down, it's
> pretty fast to write since you don't debug as
> >much as in C.
> 
> I'd agree with
> that. However, even for "rapid development", you have to sit down
> first and
> figure out what you are trying to do and roughly how you want to try
> to get
> there. If you just sit down at a GUI-builder and start throwing controls
> up on
> the screen, you'll take 3 times a long to get anywhere, and it probably
> won't be
> a pleasant place when you get there.

People with lots of GUI experience are able to come up with decent GUIs 
for smallish apps without a lot of up front work. In many cases that's 
sufficient.

My main point is that Ada doesn't lose to C or C++ for hacking on account
of its strong typing, though the lack of libraries doesn't help.

-- Brian