From: Brian Rogoff <bpr@shell5.ba.best.com>
Subject: Re: Computer Programming for Everybody?
Date: 1999/09/12
Date: 1999-09-12T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9909121557150.1131-100000@shell5.ba.best.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 7rbkm4$pn6$1@nnrp1.deja.com
On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ted Dennison wrote:
> Today I came across a proposal that got DARPA funding for an initiative
> to teach *all* elementary-schoolers to program just like they are all
> taught geometry. Its an interesting concept, which does have some merit.
>
> The language that they propose to teach the kiddies is ...wait for it...
> python.
>
> It seems an odd choice, but I figgured they'd have a good reason for it.
> So I found the report (
> http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e.html ) and skimmed down to where
> they were justifying it. I was rather dismayed at the weak logic used.
> Here's a sample:
> "We have anecdotal evidence that Python is a good language to teach as
> a first programming language."
> "The Python community has seen many reports from individuals who
> taught their children programming using Python."
> "Table 1 on the next page is a (highly subjective) chart comparing a
> few relevant aspects of Python to some other languages. From
> this table (and our experience), we conclude that Python is a good first
> choice for teaching..."
>
> The "highly subjective" statement above is the author's, not mine. But
> after looking at the chart given, I'd have to agree.
>
> To make matter worse from our perspective, they didn't even bother to
> mention Ada in their report, even as a strawman. Pascal wasn't mentioned
> either, even though a cursory amount of research would show that those
> are two of the languages most commonly taught to freshman CS students.
>
> They even go so far as to admit some inadaquacies that Ada doesn't have.
> For instance:
> "We already have some evidence of where changes might be necessary.
> Prof. Randy Pausch at Carnegie Mellon University (see
> below) has conducted some usability studies of Python within their
> limited problem domain. Their users seemed most confused by
> the case sensitivity of Python's variable names..."
>
> Any way, I'm curious what the instructors here think of this. Do you
> think Python might really be a better choice for grade-schoolers?
Better than what? Ada? Yes. Python is a lot easier to learn than Ada, IMO.
Of course, I'm not a grade-schooler :-).
> Am I overreacting here?
Yes. If you were advocating Logo or Smalltalk or some other language which
had "kid friendliness" as a design goal, you might have a point.
My choice would probably be Scheme. Maybe Unicon when it is finally ready.
But Python is OK. Ada requires a bit more sophistication, and is also
lacking when it comes to interactive environments. Interactivity seems
important for teaching to youngsters
-- Brian
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1999-09-12 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1999-09-10 0:00 Computer Programming for Everybody? Ted Dennison
1999-09-10 0:00 ` David Botton
1999-09-10 0:00 ` Raymond Calande
1999-09-11 0:00 ` Vladimir Olensky
1999-09-12 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff [this message]
1999-09-12 0:00 ` mitch
1999-09-13 0:00 ` Preben Randhol
1999-09-13 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-09-13 0:00 ` Preben Randhol
1999-09-13 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-09-13 0:00 ` John Duncan
1999-09-13 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1999-09-14 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-09-14 0:00 ` Wes Groleau
1999-09-13 0:00 ` Mike Hall
1999-09-14 0:00 ` tmoran
1999-09-13 0:00 ` Tarjei Jensen
1999-09-13 0:00 ` Richard D Riehle
1999-09-14 0:00 ` Wes Groleau
[not found] ` <Pine.HPP.3.93.990915162218.958A-100000@merle.acns.nwu.edu>
1999-09-22 0:00 ` Wes Groleau
1999-09-14 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
[not found] ` <7ronav$shf@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
1999-09-22 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-09-23 0:00 ` Preben Randhol
1999-09-23 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-09-27 0:00 ` Richard D Riehle
1999-09-27 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
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